finally writing this out..advice what do you think

[Royal]

I've been meaning to type this for awhile i came close a few times but, then would tell myself I'll do it later,I have *to do this or that first and it never got done. I know no one can really tell me what I should do or feel or what this even means but, I'd love your input on the subject. I'm thinking out load for the first time this will be long since I'm laying it all out there. *let's do this...if there are misspellings,run ons etc I apologize up front*

I'm not sure where to start...I thought because I'd be typing this it would be more easier. so, I'm really confused and have been for a long time for the past 7-8 years I've been really finding guys attractive which really blew my mind because, I've never found them attractive, I've watched coming out videos on YouTube which made my mind spin these are videos of young kids when I was in high school finding a guy attractive never crossed my mind not one bit. but, know it does? I wish I had these feelings when I was younger then at least id understand. how can someone like one sex for this long then like another sex years later? when I was 5 once or twice i dressed up like s girl for Halloween I thought it was fun and didn't think of anything of it. my mom and aunt but a tutu on me once and have me dance..dad really didn't like that but,I don't remember that I used to wear tights in kindergarten not sure why after a few times I was like I don't wanna do that. when I was younger I fooled around with my cousins not sure why maybe just to experiment at that time I didn't find guys attractive but, I would talk about girls. as time went on at the age of 15 my dad would tell everyone I was gay which confused people and I would get so pissed at this stage of my life I only found girls attractive and mostly hung out with girls. a while later I started finding males attractive honestly I like the Hollister types with a nice package yeah call me low. I kept telling myself not to think about guys. I met one off Craigslist but, it just didn't feel right. I never pictured myself with a guy,but now I've been thinking about dating a guy but, at the same time I can't see my self growing old with one but, 6months ago I was saying I can't see my self even with a guy. for a guy I'm only attracted to their looks as for as sexual wise I'm interested in oral sex but, not "back door" sex that doesn't * turn me on at all. so, can you be gay yet not want male sex? things tend to change as time goes on..while I didn't want to date a guy before now seems okay to do. do people really have a gaydar? how do I find and approach gay men? maybe I'm bi but, how can you be straight then bi? I used too suppress my feelings but, when I let them surface and not hide find them I become more me and there not intense sometimes they go away. at my old job a gay guy worked there he was pretty cool I would have never known he was gay I think a lot of people including myself had/has misconceptions about gay men I've always thought (sorry) they had to be the center of attention,load,obnoxious (there's many straight people who are like this) they all wear *makeup,high heels,dresses and they think there the best boy, was I wrong there normal acting and I believe once people see that they change their minds about stereotyping also as time goes on when someone finds out there this or that people will no longer judge people by their sexuality but, by there character it will no longer be a big omg moment my main question how can someone be attracted to girls from the age of 7-21 then out of the blue *like both and like males a little more depending on the day. i had people ask me if I was gay and at that time I'd say no and it was no but, the last time I was asked it was no of course not but,I honestly don't know I've never even written the word gay down before or said it out loud. so, I'm not sure what to do or think about this what am I? is being bi a coop out don't I have to choose which sex I like? I've never told anyone about this..thank you all feel free to ask any questions*

[dfiant]

how can someone like one sex for this long then like another sex years later?

Commonly referred to as 'Latent (Dormant) sexuality'

when I was 5 once or twice i dressed up like s girl

A bad stereotype. Believe it or not, 99% of gay males have never, will never or even had a desire to wear girls clothes.

as time went on at the age of 15 my dad would tell everyone I was gay which confused people and I would get so pissed

Enough to repress your sexuality I would imagine.

not "back door" sex that doesn't * turn me on at all

Once again, a bad stereotype. Anal sex doesn't define a man as a gay man and not liking anal doesn't make him any less of a gayman.

do people really have a gaydar?

Yes

has misconceptions about gay men I've always thought

Yes

I'm not sure what to do or think about this what am I?

A human that is trying to label himself instead of just being himself. Labels are for clothes, stereotypes are for small minded people who have no grasp on reality.

is being bi a coop out don't I have to choose which sex I like?

No choice in the matter, your either like or you don't like...simple as that and you are over thinking everything.

[princealbertofb]

Royal, first of all, to GaySpeak. I think you're pretty new here.

All the feelings you've had so far seem pretty normal to me and I might even add that I've been through a very similar situation myself. At 4-5, I wanted to wear girl's clothes or princess costumes and got indulged by my mother. It made the adults laugh, but it was not nasty. It didn't last. The next costumes I wanted were Robin Hood and such, so i guess I was over the Snow White phase.

I, like you, had strong connections with the opposite sex and liked their company, maybe not to the extent of having a relationship with one, however. Through university I was still as sexless as anyone who had had no experience at all in the romantic relationship sphere... then I started maturing and unleashing my sexual and romantic feelings as opportunities arose.

My first experience was with a boy, my second with a girl... the former lasted a few months, the latter lasted four years. But all through my ''straight'' period, although I loved the woman in my life, I still felt that I was only killing time. After we broke up, for circumstantial reasons more than for reasons of not getting on, I promised myself I would never lie to myself again and stayed celibate for 18 years.

To cut a long story short, it is possible to feel all the feelings you have and to feel all the same hang ups that you've had. It all very much depends on your environment and circumstances, what you were taught and what you were not taught. Becoming gay, coming out, or realising one is gay is very much a self taught experience, as there are relatively few models around sometimes. It's easier these days with the advent of the Internet, but it's still difficult for many people, as society has also brainwashed us into thinking that we should conform to heterosexual desires and lifestyles.

You may, or may not be gay... if you are sexually aroused and romantically attached to women, then you have at least that part of your sexuality defined, if you are sexually aroused by men but not necessarily attached to them romantically, it may also be because you've never allowed yourself to think that way about a man. It is only when you start letting yourself free of preconceived ideas of what should be and what shouldn't be that you can truly express what sort of relationship would be ideal for you.

For many of us having a sexual and romantic relationship with one person in particular is what we strive for... so either we don't care what gender that person is and go with the flow, or we realise that we can only really be happy with one gender, which makes you either predominantly heterosexual, or predominantly homosexual.

It seems to me that you'd need to experience a little bit with both to know which rocks your boat. In that respect I mean kissing, holding hands, going out with, having sex with (and it doesn't have to be anal sex, some people are not comfortable with that at all, gay or straight). As time goes by, you may find yourself, one day, being in sufficiently good company to want to expand your sexual horizons too, but you should always remember that it's perfectly acceptable to stay within your own personal acceptance boundaries. No one should force you to do anything you don't want to do, or don't feel comfortable doing. Otherwise, it's akin to rape.

Oral sex is a good place to start. You will probably find as much enjoyment giving it as receiving it. Remember, however, that even oral sex is not without risks, in terms of STDs... so remember to read up on a few precautions.

All from me, for now. Take care.
PA

[pellaz]

You never mention experiences about social repression. An older person might be judge by his or her accomplishments not as much on rumor and innuendo. Makes that person more bold and think yes I have a preference.

gay:
Every single woman or man is obsessed that being gay is the clothes you wear, the sex, the porn, the attitude. No. Its the ability to be successful in a same sex relationship. Please think in these terms. Straight bi or gay it is where you are headed in your life.

[BobInTampa]

I feel alot of empathy for you my friend. You're going thru what almost every "questioning" person has gone thru in their life. The mixed feelings, attractions, fears, conflicts of upbringinging/family/religion with deeply held feelings of attractions.

The solution? TAKE IT ONE DAY AT A TIME! If you look at where you are and what you're dealing with, it's very overwhelming. If i were you, i would try to just break it down into small chunks and focus on things you DO have control over. Are you in college? If so, i would focus more on that right now - that's a critical part of your life no mattter if you're gay/bi or str8. Are you out of school and working towards a career? Again, having a good job where you can be financially independant is also key to overall happiness - no matter your orientation.

Life has a way of working these things out if you let it just happen. Trying to "force" something just to have something happen isn't always the best thing. Rather, if you let go of your need to "know" your orientation, and just be YOU - might be the best path right now.

Of course, if you have access to some counseling, that would be really helpful, but that depends on health insurance and if there are counselors in your area with experience in workign with young folks and "sexual orientation issues" - but if thats something that you can take advantage of - i would!

I would also look to see if there are any gay support groups in your area. Many cities and towns have group meetings where folks just like you get together to talk and listen and support each other - and sometimes just knowing you're NOT THE ONLY ONE going thru this is helpful!

keep us updated!

[Blue]

You don't mention what your home environment was like growing up. That can play a key role. If it was one in which homosexuality was presented as wrong, bad or very negative, then, of course you would quickly learn to repress any such feelings and thoughts very young.

Second, not all of us fit into any of the predefined labels for sexuality. Heterosexual, homosexual, asexual and, pansexual are just man made labels that fit people about as well as a one size too small pair of shoes. Sure we can squeeze it on, but it ins't 100% comfortable and, for some, the shoes are about five sizes off and won't fit at all. Sometimes it takes 2 to different shoes to make them even come close to fitting us.

The first step in figuring out your own sexuality is to stop trying to cram it in one of the man made boxes and just let yourself see what it is. The you take that and run with it, if it turns out to mostly fit in one of those boxes, then you identify as that because it's socially easier that way, if not, that's okay, you need two boxes, or simply have to make a new box.

I mean what turns you on, men, women, beasts, gender abnormalities (Buck Angel for one)? A little of all of it (Pansexual fits that well, by the way.) None of that? Whatever works for you, it's normal and perfectly fine to feel that way, and act on those feelings and desires, it's all a part of who you are, and, no matter what your sexuality is, you are a wonderful person, and you are just the way you are supposed to be.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Until age 24 I thought I was a natural celibate.

I didn't have sexual attraction to females. At the same time I do not recall having an attraction to guys either. Maybe there was and I didn't understand it? perhaps the idea was just so revolting, so terrifying that I quickly looked away and was able to expel the notion far from my conscious mind and got so good at hiding from myself I readily 'forgot' those lapses?

Its not that homosexuality was unknown to me. My brother came out when I was 12 (he was 16). However that resulting in my mother and her husband kicking him out - he ended up as a male prostitute in L.A. at age 16, turned to drugs, got the virus (during the time there were no treatments) and ultimately died as a young man of 32.

Along with that, while I was doing seminary and university studies I also worked with the San Francisco Franciscan Friars. I was dedicating my life to service to the church back then. The friary was only 2 blocks away from Castro Street, and I worked with the friars passing out condoms, literature and other stuff to aid those in need. We also spent a good deal of time on Polk Street, where teens (mostly male) would go to sell themselves in order to survive. Many just like my brother who were kicked out, or running away from abuse.

So I was surrounded by 'The Gay' but still never peaked my interest or even considered that I might be 'that way'.

That is until I was in Las Vegas working nights as a hotel front desk clerk (my 'secular' job, on top of my ministry duties/work) where one of my coworkers managed to turn my head.

Up until that point I never had an interest. Maybe I was just too far in the closet? Maybe the early impression I had with homosexuality (Age 12, my brother exploding from the closet, then being severely punished) lead to my scurrying as far back into the deep recesses of the closet?

I think your experiences with your father calling you a homosexual may have impacted you severely, causing you to mentally and emotionally hide deeper in the closet, not just from those around you, but also from yourself.

Now that you are older, away from dad's influence and getting a firmer footing in life as an adult, those words don't sting as much and you are now opening yourself up to the possibilities of who and what you are.

The human brain is a marvelous and baffling machine. The mind can do many odd things, shunning ideas and notions completely and fully in order to protect itself from potential pain. Maybe years ago you were protecting yourself from the potential pain that being gay would present - after all dad calling you a homosexual while you were dating girls is a hurtful, spiteful thing to do.

I suspect that dad told you in many ways that 'gay' was bad - very bad. No he may not have sat you down and said 'Son, being a homosexual is the very worst thing on earth' - but he most likely told homophobic jokes, made off comments about those you all thought were gay (or were known to be gay) and you just shut down any potential there.

If he was willing to tell others you were a homosexual where you showed no signs at age 15, I have to wonder what other programming he did to you at age 2, 3, 4 all the way through to age 15....

You may not have that one decisive traumatic 'anti-gay' experience to push you deep into the closet, you may actually have had many tiny shocks to the mind that pushed you further and further in.

I think you are getting past all of that programing now, maybe not easily, there may be a good deal of internal struggle as you try to balance out the programed 'horror' of being gay against the reality of your needs, wants and desires.

How long it takes depends on if you can really identify those moments of shame and pain and see them in the light that was abusing you (no he may not have thrown you against walls and punched your face, but he applied verbal and emotional abuse apparently liberally) .

If you can work through the guilt, pain, hurt, anguish, and reconcile to some degree that no matter what you do dad won't be proud you might come through this faster. Not easier, no, faster yes.

[princealbertofb]

An excellent post by Bowyn, I must say.... It doesn't take gay bashing to make you cringe and retire into the closet, sometimes the most innocuous (at least, thought as innocuous) remarks can build up that mental image that gay is wrong, unnatural and bad. My parents are educated and wise but it didn't stop them saying a few things that I thought showed their dislike of anything gay. That drove me to keep that aspect of me a secret for many many years. Those remarks were probably not said with an intention to hurt, but little did they know how much effect they would have on me. I guess those remarks, and their subsequent effects have somehow kept me safe. I might not be here to tell this story today had I been a hard and willing practising homosexual in the 1980s. Well, that's something I'll never find out. I'm glad I was spared by the plague that killed so many loved ones. This experience has nonetheless taken its toll and certain phrases and attitudes sting to this day.

[zeon]

hello and weocome to gayspeak,
I think your going through a difficult situation and my best advice is accept things in life for what they are at the moment and to be honest being gay is completely normal like being hetrosexual... In life we chagnge many aspects and if your bi sexual thats worse emotionally than gay and straight because you never know what u want and to be honest if u settle with opne u cant go play the field for another its not right

[Royal]

thank you everyone who has commented and or read my thread. sorry this is a little late and I appreciate every comment. I'm filled with such gratitude

@dfiant
thank you for your reply I totally agree with you! sometimes we need to hear it out load. I'm not sure why I decided to express that in the spare of the moment I wore girls clothes for Halloween but, it's not something I would do now and if anyone else does go for it. live it. no one wants to be on their death bed thinking I shoulda coulda. it's time to slowly go with the feelings I have and if anything happens it happens :biggrin:

@princealbertofb
thank you yes I'm pretty new :redface: I enjoy making people laugh so, I think I got the joy of the reaction. as I was growing up I never thought about the same sex romantically. I have to say I'm glad words like gay,bi,transgender and what not are just a regular word in today's society so that people can get their answers if need be. I can be out at the mall or anywhere and see a cute guy (I notice more guys then girls) and then at that same moment see a girl and say oh she's cute anyway I've never thought about a guy romantically (until recently) sexually yes. your right the only way to find out is to experience each gender Ina safe way. thank you for your reply

@pellaz
is social repression something you don't talk about in a household? when I was little no one talked that much about the gay lifestyle not just in my house but, in society and I never had any questions about it until the past years. I'm thrilled people are being educated about being gay, bi etc,, it's not weird or different it's normal. I agree with you just to be happy in any relationship. thank you


@BobInTampa
thank you I agree with you and agree to see the big picture I shouldn't be focused on 2 days from now and have everything figured out I should focus on the whole picture of who I will become and how content I will be no matter what sex I'm with. I agree that I shouldn't force anything. that's something I'm working on. this reminds me of the law of repeltion (I might have spelled that wrong) anyway the subjects we want answers from or anything were going after keeps getting pushed away and the things we don't want get closer to us. it's time to take it one day at a time like you said and if I decide I'm gay,bi,or straight so be it. I do have a business that I run and as far as counseling beleive it or not it would be hard for me to express my feelings in this matter.

@Blue
hmm it wasn't talked about and at the time I didn't really have any questions but, now thinking about it it could have been seen to be negative. I agree I should just go with it and whatever box I land in or don't its totally fine because, sexuality doesn't define you,I, or anyone it's what we do as a person that defines us. depending on the day..both sexes turn me on and if I decided I'm attracted to both how lucky am I!! to have the option to chose both. call it greedy but, when I look at it this way it's not bad thank you

@Bowyn Aerrow
I wish my brother was gay and came out then maybe I would have a better understanding. if I decide to have kids I wouldn't mind haing a gay son but, we can't decide these things. I am deeply sorry about your brother. I'm not from L.A but, I know that area and w male prostitution is no joking matter. when I was a teenager I too would go to church not because, I wanted to change myself but, because I thought I should be in the church Enviroment. I no longer think that and I compend you on your generous help passing out condoms and such that must have been quite the experience and I'm pretty sure you learned a lot. I know what you mean it wasn't until a friend of the family thought she was a lesbian that I thought about my sexuality I'm not blaming. perhaps in that area of my life deep down without knowing it I just needed something to surface? if that makes sense? your experience makes me think maybe I too was deeply in the closet that I had no idea and my mind was just waiting for the right time for me as a person to ask questions perhaps the reason I never had a long relationship was my sub-conscious wouldn't allow me then again I just could be too shy who knows. here's something interesting when I was in the phase of dress up (I think to get people's reaction) I was in kindergarten I wouldn't do that today but, to who ever would go for it! anyway I heard a story a few years ago from my mom saying aunt... used to say be careful he might be gay (Ike its a bad thing) any how her daughter who is in her late 30's maybe 40's who was married and divorced met someone of the same sex and is with her now I guess she had always had these feelings. I'm not sure how to get in touch with her and I'd feel weird hey, I hardly know you but,this is what I feel... yes, the brain is very complex and confusing and thank you you are making so much sense! you have hit the bulls eye or how ever they say it. I agree with you 1000% it makes me think..really think thank you

@princealbertofb
i agree @bowyn did great explaining mile: I believe back in the "older" days if someone found out you were gay,bi or what not it was like a disease and they would burn you at the cross. I'm noticing now more and more people are getting the right education and acknowledgement lots of people's misconceptions are going away. I've personally been finding out being who you are is not weird but, normal it's you it's who we are. as time goes on gay will not be a subject that's scary but, just another name for something no big deal. I hope my reply makes sense.

@zeon
hello and thank you mile: I think the best thing to do is to no longer fight and suppress these feelings and to just let them be and see what happens. I'm just starting to figure out who I am. I agee being bi is more emotionally stressful because, you have no idea who you are. I'm just at that stage right now. I know a lot of people think being bi is not right you need to pick a sex. right now I'm just finding out for myself my preference. let's see what happens

@andy
I just noticed the message at the top about the site being down. it's okay. please keep up the great work and I'm thankful you have a place where people can get their questions answered,give and get advice In a safe way :biggrin: