Can you Choose to be gay?

[Mark]

why does the dad have to be the bully?

Not by the dad LOL. By other kids. And the way teens are these days.. with all the gangs and shit.. it would be really bad.

[futureRD]

Adoption does not mean problems with the child. There are many foreign adoptions without issues as well as local adoptions. That is a blanket statement that is not correct. That's like saying a gay child will grow up vomiting rainbows and sparkles, while not being able to hunt and play sports.

There is no point in arguing about whether or not it is "wrong" for gay parents to adopt. You have a very negative view on it that most likely isn't going to change until you've grown some more. You're only 19, each year you will change quite a bit, trust me, it wasn't that long ago for me. When you get more settled and happier in life, you may change your mind and your views.

Things wont change without people taking the charge and helping take in the kids they want to help. I've known kids in Oklahoma that come from gay families and they are well adjusted and not bullied. They get questioned a lot and sometimes their Moms are used as a way to attack them, but is that any different than someone saying "You Momma is so fat...." to piss you off?

Gay parents do not equal bullied, socially retarded children. ANY child will be bullied, whether it be from being fat, tall, or having freckles. Kids will always find some way to put down another kid. It's part of growing up.

I for one hate children and know I would not make a good dad and plan on only having my birds and cats in the future....

[Mark]

I think you took the statement wrong to be fair.

Children in adoption has to be from some problem as in loss of parents, parents not coping etc etc, and losing your natural parents in any way is heart wrecking. You can NEVER replace them. So to me going to adoption is one of the worst experiences someone will experience, in the waiting period etc etc. Then when in a family it will be fine, and hopefully a hell of a lot better. But I dont see how you can say adoption has no problem children, as I said they have been seperated from natural parents for what ever reason, nothing will make up for that.

I didnt say it was wrong, as any child to have a loving home thats amazing, and negative views come from problems ive had about being gay, and many many others have. There isnt one person I know which has come out and had NO problems in school, someone will always view this negative. It doesnt matter as they get older, but when they are in primary school and teachers normally talk about mum and dads, that would make a few children feel different.

May I also say I mentioned nothing about being socially retarded? So before you jump down my throat for that understand what im saying.

Times are changing and maybe in 10 or so years the situation will change, but at the moment I personally feel for me I wouldnt want to adopt a child into a gay relationship, and this is my personal choice. Not because they will get bullied more or be socially retarded. If anything coming from a gay parented family they would generally be more open minded.

I think as to the more bullied, and socially retarded you complete mistook what ive been saying. So sorry if I caused offence or anything but what you replied with I was no implying at all.

[futureRD]

I wasn't jumping down your throat, but I don't think you know what you are talking about when it comes to adoption. My niece is adopted and I deal with hundreds of adopted children through an oklahoma adoption group.

Most kids have problems period and parents will always face problems regardless of whether the child is biorelated or not. Adopted children MAY have attachment problems just as some biorelated kids do. More often then not, young adopted infants have no problems attaching to a new parent once a routine has been made. This goes for both foreign and local adoption. Some older foreign kids have problems with adoption because they don't want to be adopted and are forced into that situation.

and when being presented with your statement of Moms and Dads. Single parents face a similar situation.... they sometimes don't know their dads or their moms, and more often then not, they come out fine.

Chinese adopted into white families have a different situation... they often get asked how can they be your parents when you don't look like them. Yeah its an uncomfortable situation for the moment, but is it any worse than any other situation?

You stated that it feels wrong for gay parents to adopt and you use bullying as the main reason, but all kids are bullied for one thing or another.

I was bullied for being fat, and for being korean, and for being jewish in a mostly christian society....I got lots of questions why my mom couldn't read, write, or barely speak enlgish, and lots of teasing because my mom was a lunch lady because she only has a 3rd grade education. I didn't come out any worse off then anyone else in my peer group. Would it have been worse with gay parents? No not really, the kids would still focus on the most obvious things different amongst them. Bullying is going to happen regardless of parents.

My opinion, not going to argue about it because its pointless.

[Mark]

I think you have chosen to argue, and not understand what im saying. For those reasons im simply not going to reply. Ive stated what I said the kids have problems, and you bring me a child which has lost a natural parent and just replaced them with no issues at all.

Your not from the uk right? Maybe how adoption over there works is different I dont know. I feel mums and dads offer different aspects.

I know in the UK trying to adopt a young infant is very hard as they are the age range most adoption couples go for. When a babies born alot of bonding happens in the first few weeks.

I didnt state bullying as the main reason, that was one of the factors. I feel a child benefits from having a male and female rolemodel being mum and dad.

Can I also say, as you and I havent got gay parents we cannot anticipate how the reaction would be, but I do know how it is coming out for myself in school and this is what I based it upon.

You simply flew of the handle for no reason. This I feel there was no reason, and as your second reply came it seemed to contain anger, this makes me think on this matter its best if we dont continue. Come on dude, I asked a simple question, and stated my opinion. You dont have to agree but you dont need to completely slate me and have a go.

You did state my age being so young, So as you are older, id thought you would of learnt to accept your opinion isnt always shared by everyone.

Just one more thing. You state you deal with it in your area, that isnt the uk. Maybe we are behind how accepted homosexuality is to over there, but I know there are hundreds and thousands of people which share my view.

[Smurlos]

This question annoys the hell out of me, and I normally reply, you CANT choose. I believe this is true at a young age, but then it made me think that when your older.. You CAN choose.

Okk Ill explain and you tell me if im crazy..

As a teen/young adult you dont need to worry at all do you? Its fun and no strings etc. But we know from the start the no kids factor.

I think when you get older the desire for kids grows.. You see your friends with kids, the people carriers/4x4's, moving into the family home, the trips to disney land, big wedding, and of course the big family christmas watching the kids open presents. I mean yehh your attracted to men and that and women attracted to women.. but can they overcome the desire for kids?

In a straight relationship the kids factor can determind a relationship.. Why not in the gay world? This is my biggest worry. I know id love to have kids, and I know theres adoption but I dont feel that homosexuality is accepted enough to raise a child in a gay household at the moment.

So thinking about all this.. I dont class myself gay, as im not sure. I believe there is no sexually you can say you are or not 100%. I believe you simply fall in love. But I also believe the kids card can influence you big time.

Is it only me which thinks this??

Another thing which worries me.. You dont see many older gay couples, not OAP's as it was accepted at all back then, but in the 40's/50's. There are some but not many, and a few sites say most gays/lesbians end up being alone. Again I know personally id want a relationship which i can grow old in.. UHH its madness.

Kids, etc. aside, I see 'gay' and 'straight' as a label which basically says to me "I am interested in ONLY my own sex" (exclusively) and "I am interested in ONLY the opposite sex" also exclusively.

Therefore these labels define the kind of person you would like to see. The gender of the person you would like to share a relationship with.

So I think that these labels which people give themselves, label 'kind of person I want a relationship with' as opposed to 'Who I am' you know?

So like if you enjoy football, you're a football fan.
If you like playing with fire, you're a pyromaniac.

I just think it's all to do with interest. You should not change your interest just because you want a child. That seems a little fake to me. Does that mean that once you have the child, because your real interest is in a man and not a woman, that you will leave the woman as you have your child you wanted? Or would you go on living a lie? Fair enough, if you are interested in women and men, then it wouldn't be living a lie.

Another question though: You're in love with a man. But you want a child of your own. Does that mean you would dump the guy even if you love him because you want to now have a child? If you would not do this... would your relationship become affected at all because all you can think is 'I want a child' rather than putting all your efforts into the one that's closest to you? Or would you happily go without? - unless your partner were happy with you finding a lady who would be willing to carry your child.

It would be nice to have a child of my own, but I don't think I could. At present time, I have absolutely NO interest whatsoever in women and having sex with them. So I want a baby of my own... but I don't want to have sex with a woman... does that mean I'm not gay? No. Because my interest is in sex and relationships and the whole hog with men i.e. my own sex. There are other roots to explore of getting a baby that is your own "flesh and blood" not that this should matter in the slightest. I have more respect for fathers who bring up other men's children.

However, over time interests change depending on exposure to them, such as a few drunken stumbles may reveal that you actually like it with the opposite sex? So then you can say that you are not a hundred percent gay. I personally think it is a process of time and that at one particular time you can be 100% gay (or at least think you are) but then as I said, if/as you get exposed to women, your interests may change, so over time you may start to find an interest for women grows... or you may already have an interest for women and men (i.e. bisexual). I don't think there is a need for labelling 'more gay than straight' etc. etc. in these cases though as that bears absolutely no relevance to the situation. You like men and women. You are bisexual. FULL STOP.

By this I do not mean that we NEED labels at all. Labels are stupid. But in a society in which *almost everyone* labels at least something in their world, this is how I think the labelling system should work. mile:

[Mark]

As for the living a lie bit.. I dont think I would, just if kids became an issue I dont know what id do?

Being 19 I think im too young to staple "OH I ONLY LIKE MEN" etc. So children and that isnt off the cards. If im happy in love with a guy, then obviously im not going to throw in the towel. Its just something which has to be considered.

At this moment in time I know I wouldnt want to bring a child into a gay relationship in the future.

[futureRD]

Yeah I admit I came across as angry because of dealing with nut jobs that run around here and state that adoptive parents aren't real parents and they have the gaul to say that adoptive parents shouldn't even be called a "Mom" or "Dad" b/c they aren't bio related. If you ever do start dealing into some of the inner workings of adoptions, there are a lot of crazy people out there that have very negative views on the subject.

And before you start bringing up the fact I'm in America, one thing you should know is that America is one of the more conservitive modern nations out there. It's only now that a butt being shown nude is being accepted on public TV and only within the last few years they have had same sex kisses on tv.

We don't even have federal civil unions let alone marriage for gay couples here, and I doubt we will any time within the next 10 years. Our first and probably only shot will be if we get a democrat into office while we have a democratic congress, which will only be for 2 years into the new presidancy... it'll most likely then switch to a republican congress to act as a balance.... which means we've only got a very SMALL chance of civil unions becoming federally legal instead of being left up to each state. As of right now, I believe only 3 states allow a civil union, and 1 allows gay marriage.

There are some states that outlaw adoption to gays, and I believe Florida is one. Here in my state a gay couple that have a child, only one of the parents will be considered the child's parent... the other is really nothing in the eyes of the law, maybe at best a godparent.

SO, the UK is by far more accepting of gays. I may not be current in British law, political, and social movements, but I know about my local state in the US. I live in the middle of the bible belt, which basically means I am surrounded by a bunch of CRAZY baptists (and many normal sane baptists that don't share their POVs) that think if you aren't a baptist, you go to hell, you drink, you go to hell, you do anything you go to hell. We actually ahve one "religous" group that protests at soldier funerals spouting that the dead are in hell...

I'm just very sensitive to adoption and when I saw you saying that "it felt wrong" I did go crazy, and I do apologize. You wouldn't believe some of the B.S. I've had to deal with when helping people cope with crazy people that are in their own families.

There are some families out there that ignore and disown their own hetero children for adopting a chinese baby... or they pretend that there is no chinese baby and won't send them even a x-mas card. It's rather pathetic.

So adoptions bring out the pitt bull on crack with me and put me in a defensive mood.

It's your opinion that it feels wrong for you.

I took what you said, as you view gay adoption was wrong in general. and that was my mistake.

[Mark]

Like I said im not going to continue this discussion. Its the best route overall.

[futureRD]

hey basically I just apologized and tried to explain some of my brashness, not trying to continue to discussion, just make amends. Whatever.