Can you Choose to be gay?

[Mark]

hey basically I just apologized and tried to explain some of my brashness, not trying to continue to discussion, just make amends. Whatever.

I know.. Thanks for that, but it was obviously a rather sore subject.. Sorry if it caused offence. But I didnt mean it in any offence.

The uk is more politically accepting, but in society I very much doubt there is any difference...

[Smurlos]

As for the living a lie bit.. I dont think I would, just if kids became an issue I dont know what id do?

Being 19 I think im too young to staple "OH I ONLY LIKE MEN" etc. So children and that isnt off the cards. If im happy in love with a guy, then obviously im not going to throw in the towel. Its just something which has to be considered.

At this moment in time I know I wouldnt want to bring a child into a gay relationship in the future.

Sorry I meant to say that that's the trouble with labelling. People assume that you give something a label and it's that label for life. Hence why I rambled on about things changing over time so it's not possible to stick a particular label on someone saying "GAY" and leave it at that. Because a few years down the line they might discover they like women too, just how they discovered they like men.

And that's fair enough, that's your opinion.
I also was of the opinion I would not like to bring a child up in a gay environment... but having read what some people have got to say on the subject I'm now indifferent because all opinions are very much valid mile:

[ardus]

this post is rated R. We are the same. We love the same I am Creasy

[Shadow]

Well having been away from the island (shock of shocks) for a day and having my partner over, I've been away from the boards for a few days, so my apologies for getting to this thread a bit too late perhaps to make a substantial contribution, but here's my two-penneth on the subject ...

I think that everybody is driven in relationships by certain things ... by which I mean that certain things mean more to them than other things. You find people that will say to you "sex is of PARAMOUNT importance in a relationship, or it won't work", just as you get people who will say "I could have little-to-no sex if the other aspects were right".

Twazzle's desire for children in the fullness of time is something that I personally can relate to - however my partner is very much like Wouldlikemuscle, and so I know in my heart of hearts that it's going to be a SERIOUS uphill struggle if ever I want to take it further.

However, I think that, like most things in a relationship, having children forms a part of the greater whole that is, the relationship ... and I hope that makes sense.

For me, yep I would love to have children, and for me personally, bringing up an adopted child with two male parents isn't an issue, as I believe that yes, the child will be singled out in SOME ways by his peers for it, but I am a far-greater believer that, if I am able to give that child all the love and tenderness it needs and deserves, and to create as stable and wonderful an environment for it to grow up in as anybody else, then who gives a crap whether my partner is male or female ... it's the LOVE that's important, and the strength and love you have as a family unit that binds you and creates that framework within which the child can be raised.

Single-parents are a prime example of people that have to work that extra bit to provide the same family sense of unity for their child/ren, and they can still make it work, so yeah - I think that if I were ever to have a child, whilst I would worry (because I am, at heart, a worrier) that the child would get bullied for it, I know that if it weren't bullied for that, then something else would form the basis for the occasional joke ...

HOWEVER, having said that I do see where you're coming from on this one Twazzle, and whilst I personally do not believe my desire for having a child or children would ever be sufficiently strong to sway my desire to be in a long-standing, stable, peaceful and loving relationship with another man, I am fully appreciative that there are plenty of other people, male and female, out there that have lived their lives on the other side of the coin, making compromises of many aspects of their lives in order to focus on what they see as being most important to them - i.e. having children, and so on ...

So I think my point comes back to its beginning which is that a relationship is like putting a load of things into a bag. The bag is the relationship, and all the components are roped together, but they're in different quantities and different shapes and sizes depending on the people that form party to the relationship if that makes sense ... I don't have to have sex four times a day, for example, in order to be perfectly happy in a relationship ... but I DO have to have the confidence to know that my partner's not cheating on me ...

... do you see what I'm getting at ? I think it's what drives you and what means the most to you that forms the crucial points of your relationship ... you see some people gold-digging, or thinking of their pension ... you see others sacrificing everything in unrequited love ... and you see yet others compromising on everything because they just want peace ... the variety of relationships is as great as the variety of people in them, and so yep - I see what you're saying.

In answer to your first question, however, no - I don't think you can ever change your sexual preferences - but I agree with Wouldlikemuscle and others when they say that you can choose how you deal with them ... but ultimately I've seen my share of people that have tried to blank out their attractions in the hopes that they will either quieten or go away, only to have their later relationships complicated as a result ... so I think it's very much a case of people finding a balance of the issues that are important to them in a manner which enables them to proceed in their relationships, or the relationships are on rocky ground ...

Sorry for rambling - it's getting late :redface:.

I shall love you and leave you now !! mile:.

.

xxx

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[ardus]

Guess what future you're right

[Mark]

Guess what future you're right

What do you mean by that :l

[princealbertofb]

let me ask this now. Why do most gay men assume they can't raise children? Is it because society says no? Is it nbecause you don't feel comfortable being an authority figure?
I have to ask because it seems gay men can't get the idea of fatherhood wrapped around their head.

I think it's not just GAY men, but men in general who feel inadequate... After all they don't have those 9 intimate months of pregnancy to get used to the idea of being a father. One shouldn't assume, either, that all women have that maternal instinct. I know at least two mothers who didn't feel that way inclined, but dealt with the job adequately nonetheless but without ever feeling they had that special fiber...
Men can be just as loving as women, they are just different and they have different ways of expressing it. Don't they?
(one who knows his business) PA

[marshlander]

Although much older now I vividly remember the feelings I had as a 16 year old when I would dream at night about wanting to be a dad. I desperately wanted to care for children. During school holidays I started to undertake volunteer work at a local hospital playgroup for children with physical and learning disabilities and it was something that meant a lot to me. That was the age also I met a girl at church who became my best friend. Within three years we were married and eleven months later had our first child together.

Roll on another twenty-five years and things are very different. I've been in a relationship with my man for five years and have finally begun to realise what love is about. During those years I've dipped in, and sometimes out, of depressions, sometimes suicidal ones; dealt with the unpleasant aftermath of a fundamentalist religious upbringing including the difficult process of detachment; been through courses of medicine and psychiatric counselling for depression and fought so hard to deny that, apart from my wife, I was attracted to men far more than I ever have been to women. By the time I reached forty, life was quite difficult and it was clear I had to make some changes. Had I not done that I know I would not be here now.

However, the only thing that helped me hold the last remnants together, even on the Sunday morning, aged twenty-five, when I went out to end it all was the thought of my children. I knew I was angry because I had grown up with a perception that my dad avoided being there with me (wrong as it happens, but perceptions are pretty powerful) and I thought about how it would be for them if I went through with this. I thought about never being able to hold my youngest baby, whom I'd helped deliver at home, in my arms again and I knew I couldn't go through with it. I shall be grateful forever to the Samaritan who sat me down that day and let me try and articulate my troubles.

In some ways I envy those of you who know yourselves at an age when you are young enough not to screw other people up too badly. However, I do not regret for one second the opportunity my mistakes presented for becoming a father and now a grandfather. While I've had other things going on in my life I have tried to be a good dad (whatever one of those might be - I was determined to stick with the family while our children were still dependent) and in the main the kids attest to this. Fortunately we are all on good terms again after a sticky patch in the collapsing years of the marriage and they are all grown up and making their way through life, to my irritatingly irrepressable pride.

At the risk of spouting platitudes being a father is the most difficult, rewarding and wonderful experience I can imagine. I feel like the luckiest man in the world ... most days !

[princealbertofb]

Wonderful post, my sweet man... When I read how crazy you were about those little (now grown up) lives, it just makes my eyes water... I know I missed my dad when I was growing up.
(humidly) PA

[Stephen55]

This question annoys the hell out of me, and I normally reply, you CANT choose. I believe this is true at a young age, but then it made me think that when your older.. You CAN choose.

Okk Ill explain and you tell me if im crazy..

As a teen/young adult you dont need to worry at all do you? Its fun and no strings etc. But we know from the start the no kids factor.

I think when you get older the desire for kids grows.. You see your friends with kids, the people carriers/4x4's, moving into the family home, the trips to disney land, big wedding, and of course the big family christmas watching the kids open presents. I mean yehh your attracted to men and that and women attracted to women.. but can they overcome the desire for kids?

In a straight relationship the kids factor can determind a relationship.. Why not in the gay world? This is my biggest worry. I know id love to have kids, and I know theres adoption but I dont feel that homosexuality is accepted enough to raise a child in a gay household at the moment.

So thinking about all this.. I dont class myself gay, as im not sure. I believe there is no sexually you can say you are or not 100%. I believe you simply fall in love. But I also believe the kids card can influence you big time.

Is it only me which thinks this??

Another thing which worries me.. You dont see many older gay couples, not OAP's as it was accepted at all back then, but in the 40's/50's. There are some but not many, and a few sites say most gays/lesbians end up being alone. Again I know personally id want a relationship which i can grow old in.. UHH its madness.

I've had a break on the forum and done some thinking, I think you can choose or at least I can and I choose to be gay because I desire and find myself more comfortable with men. I dont believe you can be 100% gay / straight and people i've spoke to who are gay would agree.

I also discovered life needs mystery! lest we would get bored without the sleepless nights assessing our lives.

Still I pretty much completely agree with you Salty, love for a guy for me means no kids, but I can't guarentee my need for children wont overrule my lust for a male partner, so im taking the 'well im only young' outlook for now.

- I still believe I could fall in love for a girl, I just dont sexually desire one and havent since I came out, but a year ago this situation was reversed.