Are you pro-life

[Genersis]

While I can sympathise that people who believe unborns have souls and are the same as babies, deserving the same rights as such. To them the world is in a state of mass, acceptable, killing of innocents.

I, not believing in a soul, struggle to think of an unborn as a person when they have a mental capacity equivalent to someone with neo-cortex brain death until late into the pregnancy. If a woman does not wish to carry the unborn to term, then I see no reason to force them. When it comes to late term, it's a bit of a grey area for me...

[Bowyn Aerrow]

^^^ Ah science, so cold and calculating......

[stu]

It seems wrong to me that it is legal to kill a baby in the womb that if born prematurely could survive.

[Genersis]

^^^ Ah science, so cold and calculating......

Rumour has it.
I doubt a Vulcanologist would agree.:tongue:

[Rainbowmum]

Pro choice all the way.

[Chase]

How about we abandon this silly good verses evil, and use our own rationality.
If a fetus dies, should the woman have the right to have it surgically removed?
If a fetus is already, say, 8 months and could survive if removed, should we abort it, or, call it a life?
If the Catholic Church is right, and the morning after pill is murder, then, considering the fact that a three day fetus has in its entirety 150 cells, and the brain - not including the body but the brain of a fruit fly, has a thousand times more cells, does that mean swatting flies should be tantamount to murder? Wouldn't scratching our nose be a potential holocaust in comparison?
When Mother Teresa said condemns is equal to murder, should we deify her as a saint, or call her a mad lunatic?
If some sort of magical creature called the soul really does exist, and life begins at conception, does that mean twins share the same soul? When twin fetuses in the womb fuse together, which happens, and becomes one healthy baby with one brain, does that mean that child has two souls? Because it is possible to manipulate the embryo to produce twins, splitting the developing fetus into two, does that mean the two babies have half a soul? It isn't at conception.
Stem cells. Although it is with much difficulties, why must pro-life interest groups attempt to outlaw stem cell research of unfertilized stem cells? Ideally, we should hope for a time to come when rape no longer happens, and contraception prevents unplanned pregnancies, but will outlawing stem cell research prevent abortions?

[Pix]

For the VAST MAJORITY of pro-life people it's not about the sanctity of life but rather the hatred of women. Short & (not so) sweet reasons:

The Catholic Church has at least twice excommunicated an underage girl who got an abortion (with the aid of her family) but NOT her rapist, in one case the girl having like Down's Syndrome and not even a teen yet and the rapist her uncle who violently raped her. Evangelicals pulled something similar to this at least once as well.

A politician first tried hurting Planned Parenthood by exposing the names publicly of all who had an abortion (another tried to decriminalize killing abortion doctors) claiming too many kids were being raped and then forced to have an "anonymous" abortion but then turned around and said he'd never heard of even one case of someone raped having conceived when it was time for him to oppose choice even in case of rape.

Both Catholics & evangelicals are more concerned with murdering gays and stopping condoms in Africa rather than the actual horrid practices going on like mass rape, genocide, forcing little children to fight in armed combat, and even raping infants (the theory is that Victorians imported a superstition that now inspires some Africans to rape infants to get rid of AIDS, but the church doesn't want to get THEM killed as they do gays, and it won't stop banning condoms to prevent AIDS to prevent infant rape, which proves that they don't give a damn about infants).

Speaking of which, once an infant is born then most want to cut off all aid (such as school lunches for poor parents, welfare for single mothers, etc), which in turn forces a woman to marry a man (even if it's her rapist, but hey, the Bible is fine with that) or otherwise suffer for her "sin" of having had out of wedlock sex (many include rape as sex as it's her fault anyway). That is the point isn't about saving the baby but about making the woman suffer, and if the baby dies after, too friggin bad, the church isn't gonna waste any tears (unless they were really looking forward to sexually molesting the child once older the child was a bit older).

Evangelicals want to ban the HPV vaccine to girls for fear that it might urge them to have sex "without fear" (never mind that there are plenty of other, and worse, STDs for them to still catch, or that they can be raped), and that was actually said outright by one Texas evangelical on why he refused to get his daughter immunized. That's hatred.

Many Christian terrorist groups who use violence in opposition to abortion also tend to oppose gays, and direct a lot of their aggression especially against lesbians (which is odd given that most others normally hate gay men more, though FAUX News did lie about child raping lesbian gangs taking over the USA once...). Eric Rudolph not only bombed abortion clinics (and also the Olympics in Atlanta) but also a lesbian club, and despite this he had a gay male friend.

So don't tell me it has anything at all about caring about babies.

[Genersis]

For the VAST MAJORITY of pro-life people it's not about the sanctity of life but rather the hatred of women. Short & (not so) sweet reasons:

The Catholic Church has at least twice excommunicated an underage girl who got an abortion (with the aid of her family) but NOT her rapist, in one case the girl having like Down's Syndrome and not even a teen yet and the rapist her uncle who violently raped her. Evangelicals pulled something similar to this at least once as well.

A politician first tried hurting Planned Parenthood by exposing the names publicly of all who had an abortion (another tried to decriminalize killing abortion doctors) claiming too many kids were being raped and then forced to have an "anonymous" abortion but then turned around and said he'd never heard of even one case of someone raped having conceived when it was time for him to oppose choice even in case of rape.

Both Catholics & evangelicals are more concerned with murdering gays and stopping condoms in Africa rather than the actual horrid practices going on like mass rape, genocide, forcing little children to fight in armed combat, and even raping infants (the theory is that Victorians imported a superstition that now inspires some Africans to rape infants to get rid of AIDS, but the church doesn't want to get THEM killed as they do gays, and it won't stop banning condoms to prevent AIDS to prevent infant rape, which proves that they don't give a damn about infants).

Speaking of which, once an infant is born then most want to cut off all aid (such as school lunches for poor parents, welfare for single mothers, etc), which in turn forces a woman to marry a man (even if it's her rapist, but hey, the Bible is fine with that) or otherwise suffer for her "sin" of having had out of wedlock sex (many include rape as sex as it's her fault anyway). That is the point isn't about saving the baby but about making the woman suffer, and if the baby dies after, too friggin bad, the church isn't gonna waste any tears (unless they were really looking forward to sexually molesting the child once older the child was a bit older).

Evangelicals want to ban the HPV vaccine to girls for fear that it might urge them to have sex "without fear" (never mind that there are plenty of other, and worse, STDs for them to still catch, or that they can be raped), and that was actually said outright by one Texas evangelical on why he refused to get his daughter immunized. That's hatred.

Many Christian terrorist groups who use violence in opposition to abortion also tend to oppose gays, and direct a lot of their aggression especially against lesbians (which is odd given that most others normally hate gay men more, though FAUX News did lie about child raping lesbian gangs taking over the USA once...). Eric Rudolph not only bombed abortion clinics (and also the Olympics in Atlanta) but also a lesbian club, and despite this he had a gay male friend.

So don't tell me it has anything at all about caring about babies.

It's about caring about babies?
You can claim it's about hating women and point to extremists to try make some connection between the extremists and the lay pro-life individual; but it's no better than people who point to NAMBLA, oversexualised gay pride parades, gay people who have been caught having sex in public, and people promoting bestiality to try and prove it's not about same-sex rights rights but rather fucking anything that moves any time they want.
"Vast majority", hardly.

[Pix]

It's about caring about babies?
You can claim it's about hating women and point to extremists to try make some connection between the extremists and the lay pro-life individual; but it's no better than people who point to NAMBLA, oversexualised gay pride parades, gay people who have been caught having sex in public, and people promoting bestiality to try and prove it's not about same-sex rights rights but rather fucking anything that moves any time they want.
"Vast majority", hardly.

Ok, then explain away my reasons. If it's only a small minority, then why....everything I listed. Remember, I'm talking about a well-funded organized effort that uses specific tactics and repeats the same message over and over, so your comparison really doesn't apply.

ETA: in the case where I listed just a few as additional support (such as the 2 plus 1 girls excommunicated while those who raped them were not) then I'll accept even just 2 in which the girls were able to gain forgiveness but the rapists were excommunicated, something that shows a "balance" or "good extreme with the bad" that says it's not the fault of Eve (and I don't think you can do even that). I trust I don't have to explain why excommunicating a little girl but not an adult male who raped her into pregnancy in the first place makes them look like they really hate her and want her to burn eternally right along with you & me.

However, when dealing with the organized efforts in Africa by the Catholic Church to groups like Exodus International (and others, such as the guy who gave the prayer at Obama's inauguration) who in turn are supported by groups like Chick Fil A who got a lot of public support while the REAL evils (including that which kills children) are ignored is going to be impossible for you to explain away I think. If they care about the babies, then why aren't they trying to get those who rape babies to death to be executed instead of gays? Why aren't they instead trying to help women have their babies and take care of them or combating the other circumstances that cause this evil (or even just stop being part of the evil themselves)? (From what I see it's the non-religious Humanist organizations like Doctors Without Borders and Save the Children doing most of that, not evangelicals or even many Catholics). The Pope, btw, also gave his blessing to a politician funded by American evangelicals in promoting a bill to execute homosexuals while children rot. If what you say is true, that it's only a "few bad apples" then WHY does the organized effort work out that way and get so much public approval?

Bonus points if you can explain why the church I used to live by was so devoted to passing Prop 8 and being pro-life but ignored the rape culture by their church members and even fought a bill targeting those who trafficked in underage girls (and it was suspicious why they didn't, but that's another story).

[Genersis]

What reasons?
Perhaps you could explain why the incidents you list are so obviously clear representations of how most pro-lifers really think?

So far, you've "proved" that the Catholic Church excommunicates people over murder but not rape(Personally I'd like to see a source on this), politicians are stupid(Citation not needed) and Fox News is bigoted(Again, citation not needed).

Churches tend to have skewed priorities, sure, but to just assume most pro-lifers don't care about the unborn but hate women is just plain stupid.

Every pro-lifer I know feel outlawing abortion will stop the senseless killing of babies, protecting the life of the unborn, and protect women from dying from abortions or committing suicide after.
While I disagree with the position they take(and the grounds for why they take it), I don't think assuming some malicious motive behind their position is going to help anyone in this issue.