Need advice about my 15 year old

[wondering1]

Was not making assumptions based on anything other than what you said. You described your sons aspergers as mild, which was the main thing that made me confused as to your general reactions. As the mother of a child with aspergers I assumed your doctor would have already gone through most of its issues with you, and sexuality is not one of them.

And if the recommendation that you try to talk to your son, or see things from your sons perspective wasn't helpful to you, well I apologize for that... but if he doesn't want to talk with you about it there may be a reason for it. Try giving him some space on the matter, and letting him work it all out himself.

An inability to read others and be introspective are part of aspergers though. All my others kids take after me and I understand them. This one takes after his dad. Dad has same neurological issues. Dad raped me and next gf. My first thought was to wonder if dad was unknowingly gay thus the inability to have a healthy relationship with a woman. I'm divorced. Dad is hyper-sexual, lacks all ability to look at his own actions. I am not bitter. This was years ago and I am in a new relationship. I don't think this is a run of the mill situation. I am worried I am missing something. Never figured out his dad's issues, but I owe it to my son to see if there is something else going on rather than taking it at face value.

My oldest son says he would know if he is gay, just as my oldest knows he's not. Is it always very clear, no gray?

Thanks for any replies!

[Beaux]

My oldest son says he would know if he is gay, just as my oldest knows he's not. Is it always very clear, no gray?

Thanks for any replies!

Pretty much. It is difficult for most people to grasp that sexuality, as a trait, is defined in all children by the age of 5-6 years old (and no, they are not thinking about sex at that age, but there is SO MUCH MORE to sexuality than just the sex).
The only people who have real problems defining their sexuality are bisexuals. Many gay men call themselves "bisexual", almost as a stage of personal acceptance, before they finally accept their homosexuality but only the genuine bisexual is truely confused as to which gender they are attracted to.
Do you worry that your older, hetrosexual son might be mistaken and actually be attracted to men? I think you should accept that your son is attracted to men and recognizes his sexuality as gay, the same way you accepted your older son's sexuality.

[wondering1]

I just read through the "When did you know thread". My son liked girls up until 3rd grade at least. He gave one a box of chocolates for valentine's day and wrote her a poem. She rejected both. He cried. That was the last time I saw a girl crush. He was around 9.

Please know that I am not having talks with him about that he might not be gay. He has asked for some privacy and everything continues in our house as normal. No conflicts going on. I am just trying to learn more.

[Ryocchi]

An interesting study or two, the first done in India saw a correlation between google.com/#q=fertile+women+make+homosexual+boys&spell=1&sa=X&ei=_1TbUe_FEaiyiQL6yoCQCg&ved=0CCkQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.cGE&fp=de257cab6699895b&biw=1336&bih=707" fertile women and their last male child(ren) being homosexual. If he is the the youngest and you are a fertile woman (easy to pregnancy) it may be that property kicking in.

In essence, the older (first born) males are born 'straight' and later children (youngest0 end up being bent slightly. Which if you follow any of the links on the study the whole 'making mom more fertile' makes for a very good reason that homosexual men are still around.

Mild Aspergers, dyslexia and ADHD are an interesting combination, but I don't think that they would lead him to misjudging how he feels about himself. Sure Mild Aspergers makes it difficult to figure out others but I would assume he is comfortable enough himself to know what he wants.

It's perfectly normal when you are at a sleepover and be attracted to the same sex.

Really? I never heard of that. Where did you get that fact from? Your own personal experience doesn't mean it is his personal experience. Does it?

Being gay I can't possibly see myself at a girl's place for a sleep over and being attracted to her. I would assume that straight guys at a sleep over with other guys wouldn't have sexual attraction just because its a sleep-over.

I could be wrong, but I am the first to admit I do not understand heterosexuality - I know it exists but for the life of me I can't see the attraction. :tongue:

He acts no different from them and is not interested in anything that remotely gave me a clue that this was coming.

You are expecting there to be clues - what clues I have no idea. Other than finding him kissing a boy (or more) the only thing you can really know by is what he says.

If you met me face to face you would immediately decide I was straight. Why? I dress like a straight man, talk like a straight man, walk like a straight man, I have decidedly straight man interests such as hunting, fishing, camping, played football and baseball - I do not have a sense of color, I have no idea 'who is being worn' (fashion crap - who cares?), I am not in touch with my emotions - I can butcher hair - don't ask me to style it unless you want a bowl cut. I do use tools, I'm a carpenter by trade. I garden, I can find my way around the engine compartment of a car.

Thee is no outward sign that I am gay, there are no public behaviors that screams 'This guy is a gay!' I am not alone in this, there is a fairly large underground (hidden) gay community of 'straight acting' homosexuals and lesbians - we act as expected by society based on our gender. And it is not an act, its just who we are.

Its called 'straight acting' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-acting it is highly possible that your son is 'straight acting'... Thus other than his word and if you catch him kissing another boy there will be no outward sign of his being gay.

He may be going through a phase, but I suspect that he may have a much better understanding of his own little world and himself - this is something that people on the spectrum appear to have in common, they know what they want, what they need - they just don't know how to tell it to the rest of the world, or just can't read what other's want.

God, I swear you're a walking encyclopedia, but you never cease to amaze me, as the youngest son of a woman who had her first three children in her first 20's (all straight) and me in her late 30's the study you mentioned was quite fascinating, thank you.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Ryocchi: Hmm - Well I don't have a real life - I keep my nose in too many books, periodicals and the like...

[Eros]

I'm the youngest of the 4 of us O:!!!! what kind of sorcery is this. :3

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Thank you for all the links and advice to look at some other threads. I will read through them.

I meant that I will ask the doctor about how Aspergers could or could not be a factor. I was not expecting any medical advice, though curious if anyone had Aspergers and is gay and could speak to that.

I have traits of Aspergers, I also tested around 32-35 on the various internet tests I have taken. I do have an aversion to small talk, hate tags on the back of shirts, obsess on a subject at the exclusion of other things for long periods then drop it suddenly.

Never went to a doctor for a diagnoses. I grew up in the era where Autism was called 'Retarded' by the enlightened masses - . While it was being diagnosed by doctors, it just wasn't understood by the common man. Aspergers was even worse - parents firmly believed that more discipline was needed to break a child from those unwanted behaviors thus most parents didn't take their kid to a doctor.

Yes it was medieval. :eek:

I have been to many therapists over the last two decades. My parents were unwell people and I was subject to a lot of abuse as a child - a lot. While therapists questioned my hatred of my mother as the 'cause' of my being gay, they never suggested that my introversion, my obsession with subjects and other peculiar behaviors would be the underlying cause of my interest in men.

Aspergers will undoubtedly have an impact on how he acts and behaves as a gay man or a straight man or as a bisexual man. I seriously doubt that Aspergers makes a person Gay/Bi/Straight.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

An inability to read others and be introspective are part of aspergers though. All my others kids take after me and I understand them. This one takes after his dad. Dad has same neurological issues. Dad raped me and next gf. My first thought was to wonder if dad was unknowingly gay thus the inability to have a healthy relationship with a woman. I'm divorced. Dad is hyper-sexual, lacks all ability to look at his own actions. I am not bitter. This was years ago and I am in a new relationship. I don't think this is a run of the mill situation. I am worried I am missing something. Never figured out his dad's issues, but I owe it to my son to see if there is something else going on rather than taking it at face value.

My oldest son says he would know if he is gay, just as my oldest knows he's not. Is it always very clear, no gray?

Thanks for any replies!

Dad was a rapist = he was gay.... that leads one to conclude that gay= rapist. I do hope that that is not the track your mind is following.

Rape is about power over other people. It is not a loving act, it is definitely outside of nominal parameters of acceptable human behavior. Dad most likely had issues with women, but not in a gay way - in a way where he felt he had to take their power from them. This is not the same as what I have seen in Autistic and Asperger people. Most A/A folk I know are not wired to 'steal' the power from other people.

Autism/Aspergers is pretty much an unknown as to the causing factors. Is it genetic? Unknown - it is from vaccinations - possibly not, but that hasn't been fully discredited either (that I know of).

is there a grey area when it comes to Gay or Straight - yes there is, it is called bisexuality.

My favorite theory is that the majority of humans fall somewhere in the bisexual spectrum with only a small percentage being actually 100% straight or 100% gay.

For instance your 'crush' on that girl you had points toward you being a little bisexual. You may be something on the order of 95% straight with a 5% leaning toward same gender attraction.

For myself, there have been two women (excluding Meryl Streep) that I had a strong enough attraction to where I would have gone 'straight' for them (both lesbians and definitely not interested in me). This suggests to me that I am technically bisexual - but I identify as homosexual because I am largely attracted to males and only a very few women can turn my head. So we might say I am 95% gay and 5% straight.

It is possible your son falls in the bisexual spectrum of things - He may have the occasional interest in a female if she meets some sort of standards his heart has set for his mate.

I know man gay men who have experimented with women, a few even had successful relationships with women and were basically satisfied with that relationship. They end up identifying as 'gay' because their predominate attraction is males.

I think the same thing happens for heterosexuals a lot more than they admit. However our society is decidedly black and white on the subject and doesn't allow for straight people to experiment with their minor leaning toward the gay or for that matter admit to it.

Thus there are all of these studies that point at homophobes really having a small interest in homosexuality, but they are so upset by that because they have been told you are either gay or straight that they internalize a lot of hatred of self, which comes out as hatred toward anything LGBT.

[Vigilias]

Hi there!

First can I say that your son is so fortunate to have a mum like you!

I'm afraid I have so little knowledge of Asperger's and ADHD beyond that of a layman.

Am I correct to presume that your concern is that your son having a difficulty reading people and the subtle nuances of social interaction that he may behave in a sexually inappropriate way towards one of the other guys with the inevitable disastrous result?

If so, would a little talk ahead of the night be in order. To the effect of "You may look, but you mustn't touch."

You say his problems are mild so maybe there won't be an issue.

On another level, we gay folk are very choosy about who we're attracted to. The other guys at the sleep over might not even be in his league.

I did some volunteer work at a gay youth group and you might be surprised at what DOESN'T go on with young gay guys. A lot of the guys I knew wanted to find the right guy before having sex.

Perhaps some peer support for him would be of benefit.

Good luck!

[Rosie]

Sleepovers- when I was a kid- age 8-11ish, we'd play truth or dare with neighbor kids or on weekend sleepovers. Sometimes I got a bit tingly even if only girls were there. I have read that young kids can have these feelings and it's perfectly normal. Only thing is, now a 1o year might think it means they are gay when maybe they are not. Combine that with his neurological problems and meds and maybe it is confusing. Maybe not-that's why I'm here. To learn.

From my own personal experience I did have the experiences you're describing, but that is to be expected considering that I am a lesbian. On the flip side I had many sleepovers as a teenager with people of both sexes and was only ever attracted to the females, by your reasoning it would have been normal for me to have been turned on by the males simply because I was a hormone raged adolescent. I have never heard of the phenomenon that you're describing, and quite frankly believe that if one experiences feelings of attraction towards the same sex they are at minimum bisexual.

As for being concerned whether your son could be confused about his sexuality due to his having Aspergers, I have heard that Aspies are more likely to be gay because it is easier for them to connect to the same sex and they experience greater acceptance from the LGBT community. That is not to say that these people are not genuinely gay though. In addition, through my involvement with the local LGBT community I have found that every Aspie I've met has identified as trans to some degree. If you snoop around any of the trans/genderqueer forums or Tumblrs a large percentage of the users claim to be Aspies. I have also heard that a large percentage of people who identify as asexual are somewhere on the Autism spectrum. What all of this means, I have no idea. It's simply things that I have observed.

I'm also not one of those people that believe that one must experiment with their sexuality to determine whether or not they're gay. I feel that if someone is at the point where they are questioning it that it is a pretty safe bet that they're gay/bi. I have never heard a straight person say that they questioned their sexuality.

Just support your son, trust that he knows himself enough to know who he is attracted to.

ETA: Please know that being a rapist has NO KNOWN correlation to being gay! Rape is an act of exerting power over another person, it is not something that closeted gay men do to women. The closest thing to this that I can think of is the phenomenon of internalized homophobia (when a gay person cannot cope with their being gay to the extent that they cannot accept it and hate themselves). In which case these people act out violently towards other gay people, not straight people. Being gay does not make one a sexual deviant, it simply makes them attracted to the same gender.