Gays and relationship roles.

[TwisttheLeaf]

Yeah TwisttheLeaf you're right. Thats how things are. But lets forget the fetish side of it, and just take a look at the relationship from outside. Many gays disapprove these kind of relationships without even knowing personal details. They dissaprove it right from the start.

So? That's their problem, yeah? Not mine. Not yours either unless you let it be.

There's plenty of people out there willing to disapprove or even be violently -against- just about anything in the world.

People need to be honest with what they -need- and -want- in a partner... and go for -that-, not what others say they need or should want, and not what others might approve of.

Live YOUR life, yeah? Not the life others think you should live.

[artyboy]

Yes, I think that stereotypes aren't good, but those of us who actually fit the stereotype should not be bashed in the name of progression. It hardly makes sense. Those people want everyone to be like them and are no different than those who want everything to fit a stereotype.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound bad. But I believe life isn't black and white and nothing is the same for everyone we all look at the world in different ways and want different things in life.

[Uneunsae]

Oh, I didn't think you meant to sound bad. I was just pointing out something I felt needed to be said.

[TwisttheLeaf]

I'd want a guy that could protect me. But... I'm horrible at housework. So he'd need to do that too, or at least not have expecations beyond "meh, it's ok"

Dude, that's what housekeepers are for.

D/s is not necessarily a fetish, it's a type of relationship.
I also disprove of relationships with strongly defined provider and housewife roles. Most examples I know are of heterosexual relationships, but I believe that the same principles apply. Wherever you see a patriarchal society with strongly defined gender roles, you also see gross inequality. This type of relationship is often combined with abuse and domestic violence. I have seen this much too often is straight couples - the male thinks he is the good provider and is doing everyone a big favor, but also has a short fuse for when things don't go his way, so it often ends up in verbal or physical abuse. It's a democracy vs. an autocracy. The autocrat always thinks that he knows best and ends up hurting a lot of people in the process.
Yeah, that's the general case. I personally know of only one gay couple where such role division works and seems to make both sides happy, but both guy consciously choose to act that way, while still respecting each other as individuals.

Also, I'm curious about what you want to protect your partner from. In my experience, "protection" is just a superficial excuse for taking charge. Bears and viking raiders aren't much of a threat anymore.

Gideon protects me from myself, more than anything. I have a tendency to self-harm. That said? The man is far from abusive and we are definitely a D/s relationship. In fact, even just verbally hurting my feelings can literally -crush- him and his ego.

He's a caretaker. He's a dominant personality type that likes to be in charge, to take charge both inside and outside of the bedroom. This doesn't mean that he doesn't give me choices, or for that matter that I don't -take- my own choices and independence when I want. It means he's my rock, my support.... my anchor. And someone willing to stand in front of me when I need it, because I'm too vulnerable to stand up for myself.

I DO agree with you, though. There are too many 'pseudo-dominant' types out there hiding behind the D/s label while using it to perpetuate their abusive tendencies.

Eromir: I agree D/S doesnt necessarily have to be a fetish, but lets be honest, Im sure most people who enjoy this kind of relationships also translate it to the bedroom too. Its only logic.

In a D/s relationship like mine and Gideon's, that transfer over into the bedroom isn't in the form of kink or fetishism. It's in the fact he always tops (or almost always), that we enjoy rough sex and, more often than not in that rough sex, he is the aggressor.

It's in the dynamic in the bedroom, not -what- we're doing there. Just as it's in the dynamic of our lives.

And by "protecting" I mean it like symbolic, it doesnt mean the bottom has to be some weak ass loser who can't do anything on his own, what I meant is someone who seeks for the 'feeling of safety', which is different than being useless and insecure.

Excellently said.

[Uneunsae]

Wow, I really need to look into D/s. It might be what I'm after. Any good links for intellectual reading? Other members here might be interested to read it, too.

Thanks for educating me about this.

[TwisttheLeaf]

Wow, I really need to look into D/s. It might be what I'm after. Any good links for intellectual reading? Other members here might be interested to read it, too.

Thanks for educating me about this.

Here is a good place to start... I'll see if I can find more for you.

http://sexgeek.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/...ds-and-ms/

Gideon and I pretty much set our own rules and parameters, which works for us, yeah? Everyone's different, so every pairing will be a bit different, even in a D/s type of dynamic.

[Gideon]

Wow, I really need to look into D/s. It might be what I'm after. Any good links for intellectual reading? Other members here might be interested to read it, too.

Thanks for educating me about this.

Good links are hard to find(IMO) because most are based on Master/slave relationships/roles rather than D/s and I think alot of people have a hard time distinguishing between the two. Then again, I am not typical in even the BDSM scene...I don't much like labels or "rules" and tend to make my own way

I am naturally dominant but I don't label myself as a dominant, and Twist is -my- submissive, he is not -a submissive-...there is a difference. Which is exactly what I told him when I gave him my collar. He doesn't submit to anyone but me and when dealing with others he is definitely more on the dominant side than the submissive.

That said, I don't fit well fit well into the "Master" role. Or maybe I just don't find it satisfying. Yeah, I can boss with the best of them, I can be sadistic as hell...but having someone follow my -every- demand without complaint, having to tell someone how to dress, when to eat, what to think? That just does nothing for me.

I was drawn to Twist because he is stubborn, independent, intelligent and has a very strong will of his own. If I took that away from him, I'd be changing all the things about him that drew me in the first place. I love him exactly as he is....

I don't have a need to dictate or force my will, I like hearing his opinions, I like knowing his needs and desires, I enjoy taking care of him...whether it's coaxing out of him the emotions he thinks he's hiding or letting him take topside when he needs it or just making him feel safe and protected...I enjoy it. It gives -me- that sense of fulfillment to know he's getting everything he needs, not just what -I- want to give him.

Having control, having that absolute trust from him is amazing and his surrender, his submission is....beyond words. But he has a mind of his own and I don't just expect but -insist- that he use it and his outdoor voice in those times I'm an ass.

And if I find any decent sites to share, I'll post them or pass them to him to share.

[Cuddly]

Are you asking if there is such a thing as "working bear" + "houseboy twink" couples for example? Or what exactly was this thread about?
Sorry for being thick/daft, but I really don't understand what the debate is actually about.

[Uneunsae]

Good links are hard to find(IMO) because most are based on Master/slave relationships/roles rather than D/s and I think alot of people have a hard time distinguishing between the two. Then again, I am not typical in even the BDSM scene...I don't much like labels or "rules" and tend to make my own way

I am naturally dominant but I don't label myself as a dominant, and Twist is -my- submissive, he is not -a submissive-...there is a difference. Which is exactly what I told him when I gave him my collar. He doesn't submit to anyone but me and when dealing with others he is definitely more on the dominant side than the submissive.

That said, I don't fit well fit well into the "Master" role. Or maybe I just don't find it satisfying. Yeah, I can boss with the best of them, I can be sadistic as hell...but having someone follow my -every- demand without complaint, having to tell someone how to dress, when to eat, what to think? That just does nothing for me.

I was drawn to Twist because he is stubborn, independent, intelligent and has a very strong will of his own. If I took that away from him, I'd be changing all the things about him that drew me in the first place. I love him exactly as he is....

I don't have a need to dictate or force my will, I like hearing his opinions, I like knowing his needs and desires, I enjoy taking care of him...whether it's coaxing out of him the emotions he thinks he's hiding or letting him take topside when he needs it or just making him feel safe and protected...I enjoy it. It gives -me- that sense of fulfillment to know he's getting everything he needs, not just what -I- want to give him.

Having control, having that absolute trust from him is amazing and his surrender, his submission is....beyond words. But he has a mind of his own and I don't just expect but -insist- that he use it and his outdoor voice in those times I'm an ass.

And if I find any decent sites to share, I'll post them or pass them to him to share.

Twisttheleaf's personality is very similar to my own and I like your description of "dominance" which is not complete control, but rather a way of caring. This is very much what I'd like to have in a partner. God knows I am very independent and stubborn. I'd never do well with a partner who wanted to control me.

Thank you for your input.

[Wardo94]

I hate labels. I hate stereotypes. It should be 50/50. I don't like the whole masculine/feminine roles or the man/woman roles. It honestly just complicates things. As long as you are yourself, that's all that should matter. Do what makes you feel comfortable and don't sit there and pick labels for eachother or force yourself to be the "girl" in the relationship cause' he took the guy role. Both be guys. Be girls. It really doesn't matter.