Wall of text; venting, wanting to die, teenaged angst bullshit.

[MikeW]

Anonymous, at this point I'm not exactly sure what you need from us. I'm also wondering why you feel the need to post anonymously, without a forum identity. It makes it more difficult to be of help in a way because we don't know anything about you, how old you are, the general area you live in, and so on. All of that does matter. I don't know but it sounds to me like you haven't found your 'tribe' yet, which is understandable if you're a teenager. This quote also interests me:

"I feel like my list of potential romantic partners is painfully slim, because I've never met anyone who even came close to matching it. There are so many traits I deem vital as the core foundation my relationship with another human being."

Of course the more 'deal breakers' you have on your check list of who you're looking for, who you would even consider dating much less having a relationship, the fewer potentials you'll find. But so far what you've listed aren't that unusual (in my world): "those who love traveling, enjoy parties and simple pleasures as well as art, museums, taking an active interest in the world itself." True there are a lot of young (under 25) gay men who aren't interested in these things at all (or at least not much yet) but there are also a lot of gay men from 20 something on up who *are* interested in exactly these things.

So, again, how old you are, where you live, all this is relevant to what you seem to be saying or asking. If you have a more urban or sophisticated interest in life, you need to (eventually) be where at least some of those interests can be met (NY, SF, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, etc.). You can't know what's possible in your future based on the 'fixed' and 'limited' POV you may have now. Like I said, at age 20 I had *no idea* what my life would be like… or, rather, to the extent I *could* imagine it, it has turned out to be much different and much better than I could imagine.

So, don't wall yourself up in a world of assumptions about how your life is *going* to be. That's a self-fulfilling (and often self-defeating) prophecy. Admit it, you don't know. You don't know who you might meet or what they might be like. You just *think* you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous, at this point I'm not exactly sure what you need from us. I'm also wondering why you feel the need to post anonymously, without a forum identity. It makes it more difficult to be of help in a way because we don't know anything about you, how old you are, the general area you live in, and so on. All of that does matter. I don't know but it sounds to me like you haven't found your 'tribe' yet, which is understandable if you're a teenager. This quote also interests me:

"I feel like my list of potential romantic partners is painfully slim, because I've never met anyone who even came close to matching it. There are so many traits I deem vital as the core foundation my relationship with another human being."

Of course the more 'deal breakers' you have on your check list of who you're looking for, who you would even consider dating much less having a relationship, the fewer potentials you'll find. But so far what you've listed aren't that unusual (in my world): "those who love traveling, enjoy parties and simple pleasures as well as art, museums, taking an active interest in the world itself." True there are a lot of young (under 25) gay men who aren't interested in these things at all (or at least not much yet) but there are also a lot of gay men from 20 something on up who *are* interested in exactly these things.

So, again, how old you are, where you live, all this is relevant to what you seem to be saying or asking. If you have a more urban or sophisticated interest in life, you need to (eventually) be where at least some of those interests can be met (NY, SF, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, etc.). You can't know what's possible in your future based on the 'fixed' and 'limited' POV you may have now. Like I said, at age 20 I had *no idea* what my life would be like… or, rather, to the extent I *could* imagine it, it has turned out to be much different and much better than I could imagine.

So, don't wall yourself up in a world of assumptions about how your life is *going* to be. That's a self-fulfilling (and often self-defeating) prophecy. Admit it, you don't know. You don't know who you might meet or what they might be like. You just *think* you do.

I'm not exactly sure what I need either, it just got to the point where I really needed relief and for reasons I explained earlier I don't feel like going to my friends with this stuff. I'm anonymous because I grew up with the destructive idea (that I nonetheless fail to leave behind me) that people who verbalize their problems are either obnoxious and weak or crying for attention. At least with the anonymous function the latter criticism is invalid. I also don't feel like being anything but anonymous.

But I'm in my late teens and soon I'll be in a somewhat large city. Everything you said is true by the way, about assumptions and stuff. It's just such a bore though, living for the future. I always live for the future; future travels, future new places to live, future everything. I do look somewhat optimistically on my future, I just wish I could be satisfied with the present. Despite my being introverted and enjoying moments alone, I, like everyone, still need meaningful relationships with others, not necessarily romantic. I can be reasonably outgoing at times too. It's just that everyone I've ever met in my admittedly humble life-time (it still amounts to A LOT of people though) can be divided into 2 categories:

1. People I don't want to be around for all sorts of reasons. Probably like 80% of everyone.

2. People I like but for some reason only go into these somewhat shallow relationships with. This is either because I don't like/trust them quite ENOUGH to open up or, when the occasional, rare person I truly connect to is concerned, because I back up emotionally. This is my fault, but the tendency seems so deeply set in stone in my personality (all my friends know about it) that I don't know how to erase it. Or if I ultimately want to, because it would damage my self-respect which mostly relies on my not depending on others which seems kind of hypocritical based on what I'm doing right now, but I save myself from self-loathing by being anonymous on a place where people are free to ignore it as much as they'd like.

You're right though, this is pretty much pointless but thanks for trying to help. I actually feel better than I did yesterday; not really, because my family came home from a trip today, but at least so far as the more internal conflict is concerned.

[Sensibility]

Hedgehog's dilemma.

Really nothing can be done unless a person wants to change. If you are unhappy, you have to want to change something in order for anything to occur. Further talk about the issue isn't going to help.

"...the more I know of the world, the more am I convinced that I shall never see a man whom I can really love."

Yeah, it's an old, old thought that's been echoed time and time again. Nothing new. Good luck picking yourself up.

[MikeW]

Well, yeah, being a teenager sucks. There's no two ways about it. I mean, there are some great things about it, too, but these are outweighed by a) being under the parental control system and b) often having no one else to relate to other than your peers who are often less than interesting.

You're obviously very intelligent. I suffer from the same fate! However, somehow, someway, along the way I developed a rather bizarre sense of humor about the whole thing (my life). It is very easy for highly intelligent people to get so caught up in their heads, their 'thinking', that they miss the 'fun' life has to offer. One of my few regrets is that I didn't understand this so much when I was younger. I see now that I'm happier when I just accept things as they are without comparing them to how I think they "ought" to be. Not sure if that makes sense. It's like coming to understand that I can appreciate some people for who they are and recognize my relationship with them is always going to be 'limited' in a certain way. But that's ok. It is what it is.

Another thing I'm going to take the risk of suggesting is that you try getting out of your head more. Don't worry, you won't loose your intelligence or good sense. How to do it… well, it depends on a lot of things. I don't know you so don't know what to suggest. Take up skydiving along with memechose? Rock climbing? Going for long walks with the dog? Something creative like writing or music? For me at age 19 it was getting into psychedelic drugs (cannabis, LSD, DMT, psilocybin). Talk about getting outside my comfort zone! But that was another era when such things were 'new' and exciting and, well, I was smart enough not to either overdo it or get consumed by the drug subculture they emanated from. What would be right for you I have no idea. But 'getting out of your head' some of the time is highly recommended. Damn, dude, life CAN be fun; nothing wrong with that so long as you play safe and know WTF you're doing. Honest!

So much to learn. Truly, life is amazing.

[MikeW]

Oh, while I'm at it I want to add something. You're very self critical (apparently), this shows up in several things you say in your writing. Like calling this "teenage angst bullshit" and wanting to remain anonymous because its like there is something wrong with wanting or needing attention.

Not sure what that's about… Do you have overly critical parents (I did)?

So far as I can see, you have a lot going for you. You do have a tendency to over-think things and second guess your motives… or to be judgmental of them. But, for example, there's nothing wrong with wanting or even needing attention (support, affirmation) from other people. For sure we shouldn't get hung up on it , feeling we're not 'good enough' if we don't get it and rather a lot of it. But that has to be balanced with what is deserved, too. I could be wrong but I sense beneath your words a real inner conflict. For example, do you ever feel you're a total FAKE? That eventually everyone will figure it out and you'll be seen for the 'truth' (whatever that is)?

Just curious because I labored under that one for years! Ugg. *Never* good enough. :\

[Anonymous]

Hmm, well I actually do a few creative things; I write every now and then. And I do experiment with drugs occasionally - in a controlled manner of course and nothing too strong or too addictive. It's not that I don't understand life can be great - I'm happy a lot when I do stuff like seeing friends or travelling all over the world. But eventually, after more extravagant things like going abroad you have to land in something more mundane, stable and permanent for a while. I think those are the periods I dislike the most because my distance from other people makes mundane life kind of hard to bear after a while. What difference does it make whether I go to yet another party or stay home alone when I'll meet the same kinds of people I always meet at parties?

And I didn't grow up with very critical parents at all. I think it's because no matter where you look you see people taking all these measures to be acknowledged and affirmed by other people. I know it's natural to an extent; wanting to be acknowledged by others, but it's essentially the plague of my generation. Anything that draws attention to myself (such as admitting a death wish) I immediately associate with that same desperate need I don't really have. I don't really want a deeper relationship with another person to affirm myself; because I feel affirmed already. I just want a sincere, deep contact, romantic or not, that can restore my belief in human relationships which is in many ways the most fundamental necessity to exist happily, at least for a very large majority of people.

[ETOTE]

Well,

Ever since I realized my sexuality at a pretty early age and the response I knew people around me would have if they found out, the foundation for a really unhealthy personality type was set. I wanted to die really badly as a young teenager, but knew that it would never be an option given that it would scar people around me.

When you know that everyone around you would abandon you if they knew your true self, you instinctively learn to never rely on other people. I kept everything to myself, trying to become as apathetic as possible, never exposing my feelings. Several years later it's led to a situation where I don't have any opportunities for emotional release. My friends are so used to my secrecy that it really disturbs them whenever I try to reveal a bit more about myself so I just recoil.

I get these periods where my death wish comes back only a lot more extreme each time. I have plenty of friends, high self-esteem, a rich social-life etc. but I still want to just die, because I still feel disconnected from the concept of a TRUE, deep and meaningful relationship. It just seems like the leap to actually reach out, truly, to another person is so... vast, almost unachievable. And nobody ever pleases me since my first, somewhat destructive relationship. I socialize frequently with other LGBT people my age but they all strike me as either too shallow or stupid to waste time on; too pretentious and eager to lift forth a completely artificial image of their hip selfs; sex-obsessed etc. I've spoken to hundreds of them and none of them have really pleased me. I feel as though they're not good enough for me; I feel bad for thinking so lowly of them all, I feel like I've never truly reached out to someone and I feel alone. I feel alone around my wonderful friends, alone at parties, alone and desperate even when doing really stimulating stuff like reading or writing.

Most of all I guess I'm ashamed because my suicidal feelings are really founded in my complete lack of faith in other people as well as, in the case of the few persons I actually like and value, my inability to ever reach something meaningful. This text is way too long, angsty and irrational, but I'm not really sure what to do. I'm at the point where I doubt this is ever going to go away. The plan at the moment is to simply endure these periods of absolute desperation and wait for more optimistic times to come. It's really soul-crushing because I remember very clearly how I developed these cynical, misanthropic feelings at such an early age, and they've just continued to grow and grow.

you mentioned in the OP that you have contemplated suicide...
That warrants the advice of seeking help...either through a suicide hotline or a therapist or both...and I'm still advocating that, regardless of your stubbornness.

Also, you painted the picture as if no one understood you because of your sexuality and that if you came out people would not be accepting, now you say you are and you say your friends don't care, they still like you anyway....

You're saying all of this was sparked by a dude you were seeing who only wanted sex where you were hoping for a budding relationship. And this if your first bf you've been with or first guy, you were calling it a relationship when it clearly was not, imo.

So to summarize, you are basically just feeling crappy about having a difficult time trying to find the right guy to possibly have a meaningful relationship with and you are just sulking about this one and first bad experience, widening the reflection to just wanting more meaning in life period with your activities, your friends, people who you can really connect with and relate to, that understand you, all while having a deep, committed, loving, meaningful relationship with a guy.

Agree with Mike, not sure why you felt you needed to post this anonymously and what teen angst has to do with anything, let alone having a bad experience in the dating world.

You went the very long-winded way around about wanting to discuss something everyone goes through. Congratulations, you're normal, because we all want that out of life, if it were so easy to find sites like this would not exist.

Take a breather, have some fun with some friends, get back on the horse and try again.

Don't write off all other gay guys because your first one wasn't on the same page as you.
What you are describing can happen to anyone regardless of age, gender or orientation.
A change in attitude and perspective can do some good in changing your situation.

[Anonymous]

@ETOTE:

You misunderstood almost everything, but I think that's because I was unclear. I contemplated suicide when I was young and discovering my sexuality. At this age I am more aware of the trauma of suicide and would never harm people around me by offing myself.

I just mentioned that my sexuality is ONE aspect of my alienation and I never mentioned being closeted to begin with, it's something other people assumed.

All of this was SPARKED by that dude, but there are plenty of other causes that I've discussed.

"So to summarize, you are basically just feeling crappy about having a difficult time trying to find the right guy to possibly have a meaningful relationship with and you are just sulking about this one and first bad experience"

You're making so many assumptions about me. First of all, it's not the only bad experience I've had and I'm not "basically" just feeling crappy about it. I've explained in detail why I feel crappy. Now, I understand why you haven't read it because, honestly, I can't see myself reading the lengthy laments of a complete stranger, but then at least choose NOT to add personal assumptions into the response.

I haven't written off all gay guys and the problem is far from being that "my first one wasn't on the same page as me". I know the problem still lies in my attitude but it's offensive to belittle my experiences with "silly gay guy had a first bad encounter and is taking it out on the human race".

[Uneunsae]

I relate to you very muchOP, and I know the reason is my past abuse. So I'm reading everyone's responses and seeing what I can learn.

[Aike]

It is very easy for highly intelligent people to get so caught up in their heads, their 'thinking', that they miss the 'fun' life has to offer. One of my few regrets is that I didn't understand this so much when I was younger. I see now that I'm happier when I just accept things as they are without comparing them to how I think they "ought" to be. Not sure if that makes sense. It's like coming to understand that I can appreciate some people for who they are and recognize my relationship with them is always going to be 'limited' in a certain way. But that's ok. It is what it is.

I would very much like to echo Mike's advice here. Not to say that you should be satisfied with whatever life has to offer you but it's a real drag trying to live up to the unrealistic expectations one puts up for oneself. If you live your life in pursuit of happiness and self-discovery I can guarantee you'll find yourself ashamed and depressed for failing to live up to all the fantastic expectations that often come with these goals. I'm guessing there's something similar going on with your desire to find somebody who you could truly connect with: all your relationships are always going to fall short if you keep on clinging to this idea of True Connection, which is waiting for you out there somewhere. It's kind of disappointing to accept the limitations life imposes on you but, on the other hand, it relieves you of the guilt of inadequacy - the feeling of failure for not trying hard enough or the feeling that your life is somehow flawed if it's not full of all these fantastic experiences.