Out in the closet...

[princealbertofb]

memechose, I'm glad to hear that you are helping people out and socializing with them.

There were a few LGBT organisations in my country which tried to gather support for the gay community. These organisations were started by gay-friendly straight people. However, these people were criticized and even labelled as "gays in closets". These people were fired from their jobs and were shunned by their families for supporting gay rights. Sadly, these organizations were closed down. The message sent to everybody was like "Even if you are not gay and support gay rights, you are still considered as one."

Many homosexual people I know (single or couple) chose to migrate to Europe, Canada etc because they had enough of being condemned by the society and want to live somewhere without shame and with pride.

I'm also considering to move to another country but its not easy.

There are many factors to consider:
-Whether you will be able to find a stable job there?
-Whether you can adapt to that country's culture and environment?
-Whether you have enough savings to live there?
-Whether its easy to find a home/apartment for rent?

Plus leaving my family behind makes me feel guilty and sad. I'm certain they will never accept or approve my sexuality if I come out to them. I mean my parents have brought me up from young. I feel like I'm not appreciating their love and care for me by leaving them and migrating over.

Also like what memechose has mentioned, I'll also not know anyone in that new country. Maybe if there are gay organisations,clubs or societies there, I can join them and start making new friends with a fresh start.

But ultimately, sometimes I find I dun have the guts and courage to migrate and live my own life. Also, its no easy task to move to another country as it involves many things to be done. I sometimes think that I have to lead a fake life here and remain single. Of course, my family and relatives will be very happy. But in the end, I'll probably going to regret for not living my life when I'm in my deathbed.

Ultimately, though, Blue Dragon, you don't want to live your life just for your parents... they gave you life, that much is true, but they will only have to take care of you for about a generation (20 years) before you start your own adult life and maybe find true love and want to start if not a family, at least a relationship with someone else. Why should you be condemned to a life of secret loves and affairs just because you think you'll disappoint your parents? If all goes well, your life could extend well into 4 generations (or longer - that's 80 years of life!!!).

If your parents have brought you up, and know you so well, then they probably realise that you are different. Most mums know. Sometimes parents decide to ignore the fact that they know their son is gay because it's more convenient, gives them less stress, and (I think it's wishful thinking but) they think it might be a reversible situation. (?)... They can always hope. Probably, they selfishly also want some grandchildren (which you might not produce if you are gay and decide to shun female companionship) and also selfishly (for peace of mind) they might hope that by keeping it a secret you will be safer in society. Keep it quiet, don't attract attention to yourself and your difference... I'm sure they are concerned as much for your safety as for their tranquillity.

However, if you are an unhappy man, this concern for safety may turn against you and against them. Look at what happened to Romeo and Juliet.

I think, if you can, it would be better for you to find love, wherever that is possible, and to gradually get your parents to accept it. They can lie to the neighbours if they like, (after all it's none of their business who you bed and wed), but you should not lie to yourself. Sometimes separation is the only way to wean parents off their children, and to make them realise that we have become sexual and emotional adults, people who deserve to have all these needs and desires met. After all you're not killing anyone by falling in love or by experiencing with sex and your sexual urges. Maybe parents need to learn to appreciate having an extra person in the family regardless of their sex. After all isn't a son in law just as nice as a daughter in law?

I recommend that you watch LILTING, the Hong Khaou film which deals admirably with these topics.

Take care, sweet Blue Dragon. Wish you good luck.

[bluedragon]

Ultimately, though, Blue Dragon, you don't want to live your life just for your parents... they gave you life, that much is true, but they will only have to take care of you for about a generation (20 years) before you start your own adult life and maybe find true love and want to start if not a family, at least a relationship with someone else. Why should you be condemned to a life of secret loves and affairs just because you think you'll disappoint your parents? If all goes well, your life could extend well into 4 generations (or longer - that's 80 years of life!!!).

If your parents have brought you up, and know you so well, then they probably realise that you are different. Most mums know. Sometimes parents decide to ignore the fact that they know their son is gay because it's more convenient, gives them less stress, and (I think it's wishful thinking but) they think it might be a reversible situation. (?)... They can always hope. Probably, they selfishly also want some grandchildren (which you might not produce if you are gay and decide to shun female companionship) and also selfishly (for peace of mind) they might hope that by keeping it a secret you will be safer in society. Keep it quiet, don't attract attention to yourself and your difference... I'm sure they are concerned as much for your safety as for their tranquillity.

However, if you are an unhappy man, this concern for safety may turn against you and against them. Look at what happened to Romeo and Juliet.

I think, if you can, it would be better for you to find love, wherever that is possible, and to gradually get your parents to accept it. They can lie to the neighbours if they like, (after all it's none of their business who you bed and wed), but you should not lie to yourself. Sometimes separation is the only way to wean parents off their children, and to make them realise that we have become sexual and emotional adults, people who deserve to have all these needs and desires met. After all you're not killing anyone by falling in love or by experiencing with sex and your sexual urges. Maybe parents need to learn to appreciate having an extra person in the family regardless of their sex. After all isn't a son in law just as nice as a daughter in law?

I recommend that you watch LILTING, the Hong Khaou film which deals admirably with these topics.

Take care, sweet Blue Dragon. Wish you good luck.

I'm surprised PA because you seem to know my thoughts and life story very well.
I did tear up reading your reply because you understand the agony that I was going through all these years.

I believe my mum suspects me because most guys of my age already have a girlfriend while I'm single and dun bother to find a girlfriend. She knows somethings different with me, but I guess she chose to be ignorant about it, like you have mentioned.

I want to thank all the GS members here for being kind and supportive. Your advices helped me alot. Reading your relationship experiences gives me motivation and lessons to learn.

Thanks PA for your advice and I really hope to live my life freely in the future...

[verysimple]

Thank you for pointing me out. Actually Jordan and Lebanon are almost equal regarding LGBT rights sullied.

So VerySimple, what you think about to save yourself and escape is exactly what I'm thinking about... Or so I guess. Save money and leave this country ASAP, and it would be even safer if you never came out to your family.

haha, I wasn't really planning on telling any family, I believe that none of them would accept me by any means... by hey; What do you say we save up and get the hell out of this messed up mad place? lol

[bluedragon]

haha, I wasn't really planning on telling any family, I believe that none of them would accept me by any means... by hey; What do you say we save up and get the hell out of this messed up mad place? lol

count me in too

[Chris]

I would apply for asylum in a gay friendly country. Usually you need to be in a given country in order to do it so I would find an exchange, for sure there are many between Europe/USA and the Middle East, or maybe Israel as it's close and then seek help in a gay friendly organization. Another point is that you can start learning a foreign language of a country you would like to live in so later on it will be easy for you to find a job

[verysimple]

I would apply for asylum in a gay friendly country. Usually you need to be in a given country in order to do it so I would find an exchange, for sure there are many between Europe/USA and the Middle East, or maybe Israel as it's close and then seek help in a gay friendly organization. Another point is that you can start learning a foreign language of a country you would like to live in so later on it will be easy for you to find a job

haha well that is why i am actually studying french as my major.. so that i can go to france and perhaps live there once it is possible for me and i believe it will be for sure! I am working on it buddy!

[verysimple]

Bowyn if you go back and read what I wrote you'll see I acknowledged the situation isn't perfect in the USA or any nations. There was no need for you to "correct" anything. They best thing you could do to broaden your cynicism and pessimism would be for you to actually experience true oppression and punishment for your sexual identity as thousands of man do yearly from Morocco to Bangladesh.

Here's you a new logo.

I totally agree.. If you live somewhere else where you are completely oppressed and cannot even be open about yourself.. to have the feel to scream it out loud! that is when you know how hard it is to be gay... Besides, what is it any of their business? Who I am F**ing is non of their business as long as it isn't them!

[verysimple]

Bluedragon... Thanks.

I have talked to people who have left nations to migrate to the USA and Australia. All say the same thing about their arrivals. They are lost when they arrive and find it difficult to find their way into the gay communities into which they have moved. There is much they are unaccustomed to and there's no one helping them to learn the ways of a new culture and adapt to a new way of life.

There is a HUGE cultural shock for any man coming from a nation where homosexuality is a crime and leads to becoming a complete social outcast and they must be very secretive and afraid. There is much to learn and UNLEARN in order to blend into gay communities in Canada, the US and Australia and certainly in other nations. For many of the immigrants who cannot easily move into mainstream gay life they seek out the company of immigrants from nations familiar to them who continue the same hostilities towards gay people they had before they immigrated.

My idea is to coordinate with gay immigrants and learn all the hard things they encountered when they arrived in new lands and get them to tell the rest of us how to do better. We should be able to sponsor gay immigrants and introduce them into a culture unlike anything they've experienced and help them unlearn the ways they had to survive in hostile homelands.

Members like Bluedragon, BlueStar, and VerySimple etc are in GaySpeak learning how we interact, make friends and build loving relationships and that is wonderful. But then there are thousands of others who live with the constant fear of being arrested, fired and becoming outcasts and even blackmailed by those who take advantage of them with threats of telling the police or family they are gay. Coming from cultures like that into cultures like those found in large cities with large gay populations is not easy for them and it is cruel for them to arrive with no one to help them adjust.

I understand this from a personal standpoint from my own life. I live 9 hours from the nearest "gay city" Minneapolis and 14 hours from Chicago. When I go there I experience cultural shock without anyone to act as my guide. Believe it or not --- my straight room mate is the best guide I have!!!!!!!!! He knows his way about gay culture better than I do sometimes.

I'm still learning the language and make mistakes in conversation. Example : If I say I'm into "tricking" in Chicago guys assume I mean I'm there to do sex for money. NO! Tricking is also the mix of martial arts and gymnastics that many guys like Ray and I do. For me when I say I "like to party" is means hang out with friends and drink --- not do crystal meth.

Those are just 2 examples from my life. Now imagine what BlueDragon, BlueStar or VerySimple would experience going to the same cities and their bars.

i think all this is alright because once I get there all of these minor things can be figured out! as long as gay groups do exist then it can be figured out! just getting out of here is the major thing... baby steps!

[shirogane]

count me in too verysimple. I think I'm always tired of being hide from my parent and my friend. Maybe we will meet each other soon

[verysimple]

count me in too verysimple. I think I'm always tired of being hide from my parent and my friend. Maybe we will meet each other soon

sure you are more than welcome to... haha