Is Astrology True?

[meridannight]

That's exactly the disgusting attitude.

thank you.

[Doofus89]

Astrology and "spiritualism" or whatever you want to call it, in my eyes, is just a substitute for religion. In lieu of whorshiping a deity/ies, you look to the sky to guide you through life. They are literally stars. Nothing more. Regardless how Richard Dawkins presents his arguments as a means to belittle the belief for monetary gain, it's ridiculous. And he is right in saying at the end of his episode that if you want to concern yourself space and the stars read up on Astronomy. At least that is in fact a concrete science. And has the potential for growth (we see the universe expanding constantly. Literally and figuratively).
I don't know why people are SOOOOOOO afraid of the fact that we're a randomly occurring phenomenon in the universe. I can't see what is scary about that? That makes me appreciate life THAT much more.

[DreamMaker]

Again, I appreciate a different perspective, you should know by the diversity of opinions of my friends.
I just have one condition- don't be a dick.
Unfortuantley, lots of people are dicks.
Lots of people are ignorant. And aren't even willing to QUESTION or see another perspective.
Why is that? Maybe because they're afraid?
Atheism is much more similar to theism, than spirituality.
At least the extreme form of it.

[Doofus89]

Astrology isn't about "guessing" your sign. It doesn't work that way.
It's not just based on your sign, not even just on your date.
It's more than that, but I guess you don't really care.
Too bad, I thought I could make people listen and open their minds,
seems like it's acceptable to insult and disrespect others when it comes to Astrology.

It has nothing to do with it being acceptable to insult peoples beliefs because they aren't based on science. It's just hard to follow a belief system that's based on stars. I've read up on Astrology (not including zodiac signs and all that) I just can't understand it. But, in Astronomy, which people go to school for and not (just) look up in the library or the internet, is infinitely more complicated. You actually learn about the universe and how we (as a planet and species) were created. Hopefully somewhere down the road, we will discover the origins of life. Scientists speculate that if you could "look" inside a black hole you may see the "big bang" or some early stage of it. Now, black holes have recently come under scrutiny due to mathematical inaccuracies and so is the big bang for obvious reasons, but it keeps us studying for the better of humanity.

[DreamMaker]

Astronomy is awesome, interesting and important.
But it's not Astrology.
It's ok the you cannot understand it, that's a totally different argument and I accept it.
Again, I'm not here to convince anyone otherwise.
The only thing that bothers me is ignorance, that's all.
As long as you say you don't understand it or relate to it, it's all good man.
I don't understand lots of stuff but they work ^_^

[Doofus89]

Again, I appreciate a different perspective, you should know by the diversity of opinions of my friends.
I just have one condition- don't be a dick.
Unfortuantley, lots of people are dicks.
Lots of people are ignorant. And aren't even willing to QUESTION or see another perspective.
Why is that? Maybe because they're afraid?
Atheism is much more similar to theism, than spirituality.
At least the extreme form of it.

Only thing I'm really confused by is your statement of "Atheism is much more similar to theism, than spirituality." Atheism is a complete reject of theism... Maybe I'm just not sure of what "spirituality" actually is. Hence why I use quotation marks when I use the word in written text.

[Lexington]

Astrology isn't about "guessing" your sign. It doesn't work that way.

To be completely and utterly frank, it doesn't work ANY way.

At its very core, the basic theory of astrology is that the position of celestial bodies in regards to Earth at the time of birth affects the lives and "make-up" of individuals. It's usually somewhat oversimplified by putting people into one of the twelve "star signs", based upon their birthdate. As it's supposed to work, somebody well-versed in astrology will take your birthdate (and time, if he's really running things deep), determine the position of the celestial bodies at that moment, and then figure out how those bodies influenced you at your birth, and how they're influencing you now.

When I talked about giving fake dates to astrologers, I didn't do it for shits and giggles. I did it to see if this actually worked. Because true science works in both directions. Your cause gives you a result, and based on a result, you should be able to determine the cause. Burning copper gives a green flame - so if you burn a metal and get a green flame, this indicates that that metal might be copper. Pushing a weight of some known mass into another object transfers X amount of energy into that object - so if you push a weight into another object and get X amount of energy, you can determine the mass of the weight.

Astrology, if sound, should work the same way. If being born at a particular day and time creates such-and-such an individual, then any individual which exhibits such-and-such traits should have been born on that particular day and time. Of course, we're dealing with less quantifiable aspects - you can't measure personality on a scale - so I don't expect astrology to exactly pinpoint my date and time of birth. But if it works, it should be able to get in the ballpark. In short, astrologers should be able to figure out my star sign based on the traits that astrology supposedly affects. And, to put it simply, they can't. Which is why I don't believe.

Lex

[Haruka]

Given this, I'm leaning towards horseshit. But then again, that's typical of Capricorns like myself.

I'll just leave this here, because all your arguments have probably been already refuted :
Riyarchy Astrology argument map

EDIT
I just noticed that our forum has a built in star sign display. What's up with that ? lol

[meridannight]

not like this isn't a typical reaction of the religiously-inclined who received criticism and skepticism for their religion/superstition. this is a typical response you get. 'you haven't even researched my religion, how can you dismiss it?'. i don't have to read the entire bible in order to dismiss christianity and its god. just as well, you don't have to read an entire book on physics or chemistry and master all the equations in order to get an understanding of what physics or chemistry is.

i don't have to disprove astrology. the burden of proof lies on you. and so far you haven't offered anything in that department but some inane ramblings. it's funny that religious people often take offense at others not believing their brand of religion.

then the atheism is a theism angle: my passionate contempt of religious belief does not equal religion itself. and who's the one making threads on astrology trying to convince people it's got some credibility anyways?

[DreamMaker]

Astrology isn't science. I never claimed it is. I never claimed it was proven as well.
Astrology has both subjective and objective factors, that cannot be measured.
However, I still see it work in my experience.
Lexignton, I don't know exactly how the process was and what exactly the Astrologers told you,
but it is interesting. I'm open to see exactly how the process went.
Meridan, I said that not because I want you to "follow" it, or believe it.
It's ok if you're completely uninterested. But I don't like the attitude of ridicule and disrespect.
And that's about being a person, a human being, doesn't have to do with anything else.

Astrology in my eyes, isn't religion at all. It has its wisdom and mythology, but it's not religion.
Astrology for me, is more of a tool than a belief. It's just works for me and many others.

The reason I published this thread, isn't to convince you guys. I hope your mind can be a bit more open, and see that there are tests that were conducted by skeptics who were highly biased and irresponsible SCIENTIFICALLY. Because they were a part of a Skeptic Committe or something like that.
The research by Ertel, is interesting...
It's ok if you still don't want to look at it. I get it.
But if you claim to -know- the "truth", look again.

Sorry to disappoint you, but science doesn't know everything.
It is still progressing and evolving.
Lucid Dreams were once a fiction, a contradiction, impossible, illogical,
and yet it was proved by science later.