Advice Appreciated

[TwisttheLeaf]

Hey man. Welcome to GS.

I didn't read through all the responses to your post, I'll have to come back later and finish up the reading of those. But....

He sounds really selfish to me.

I say this because I'm a lucky S.O.B. with an amazing partner, yeah? Prior to Gideon, this isn't something I would have noticed so strongly, but the fact is? A partner shouldn't be picking picking picking at you, and he shouldn't be dragging you down and making you feel bad (which to me, sounds intentional). He should be more... responsive to your feelings, and just sounds like an insensitive prick from everything you've outlined here.

In my thoughts, I wonder if this picking will eventually pull your confidence down to a point where, when he starts in on your friends, you will then start socializing less and less. Become more secluded, which he can then use to pick some more and manipulate.... It's an abusive cycle, and it ends with you fucked up in the head because of the damage he caused.

Just something to think about, yeah?

[Borg69]

We're currently head butting on various recurring issues:

My BF:
- Thinks I don't smile enough/ look happy enough / grumpy
- Sex isn't frequent enough - he's very vocal about this to friends too.
- Thinks I don't find him sexually attractive
- I'm not a compromiser, with location of my new job etc.

He's relying on you to fix HIS insecurities. Which totally isn't fair to you. It's a game where the rules are constantly changing, and you have no hope of winning. Subconsciously, if he can't raise himself to your level, his only option is to drag you down to his level.

[MikeW]

...In terms of communication...
>>>My BF doesn't like to leave anything unsaid he'd rather deal with issues at hand then hide them -
>>>I'm the same way inclined however I know that sometimes there's appropriate and inappropriate times to bring things up.
>>>My BF knows this and we've spoke on it, and tried to work through it but we're still dealing with this critique demon.
>>>I will let things slide, a few times, and if it really pisses me off and it's happened on loop I'll bring it up.
>>>My BF likes to make sure I know, every time I get something wrong. Kind of like dating Sheldon Cooper haha (he has OCD too).
>>>We spoke again last night and I tried to tell him why it's upsetting to be critiqued all the time but he insisted he doesn't critique me that often and if he didn't I'd not learn. Anyway we kissed and made up for now. (!!!)

As for your question, yes - I'm willing to do the work for it to happen, we'v had 3 big bust ups and worked through them, however if things in the next few months slide down hill, or we go back to that big argument stage we've both agreed that space and time apart is needed to evaluate things.

First off, I asked if BOTH of you are willing to work on communication. Both have to work at it, not just one partner. You both have to want it.

Second, I'm not there to observe your interactions BUT, from what you've said above, it sounds to me like you guys are NOT communicating -- that is, truly understanding one another.

For example, you said that last night you two spoke again and you "tried to tell him why" IT (being critiqued "all the time") is upsetting BUT "he insisted he doesn't critique me all that often and if he didn't I'd not learn." <<<< This is NOT communication. In fact it is a confusing mess, made all the more so by "kissing and 'making up'" at the end of it, as if communication had taken place, as if you both now understand one another, as if both the identified and underlying problems are now resolved. Yet I get no indication from what you've said that they ARE resolved. On the contrary, it looks to me like all you two have done here is go around in a circle, get even more intrenched in your different POV's, but then 'kiss and make up' as if none of it really matters.

Well, either it matters or it doesn't. That you've come to this forum complaining about your relationship, presenting your partner as an overly critical OCD control freak and yourself as a hapless victim of his insensitivity, asking for advice on what to do about this -- well all that suggests that it DOES matter to you, that this issue (and whatever issue is beneath it) is NOT going away and won't go away until you truly understand one another -- IF that is even possible.

[jimcrackcorn]

Your boyfriends desire to constantly criticize you may continue until he learns how to bite-his-tongue. Ask him if he would try and avoid critiquing/criticizing you for just one week,,, if he can stop for one week, then he may learn how to deal with his need to "teach" you how to do every little thing his way (smile)... Unfortunately,,, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and have to be careful not to insult my husband who I lovingly refer to as pig-pen. I have learned over the last 39 years together,, that there are almost always two ways to do something and end up with the same result. So I have learned to bite-my-tongue and let him do things his way. Your boyfriend will have to learn how to let you do things your way ( just as I had too) in order for there to be happiness & harmony within the relationship. This doesn't mean that one of you must always do what the other says. As an example, if your cooking - do it your way,,,, if he's cooking - he does it his way. If he doesn't like pickles, leave them off his sandwich and put them on yours...... Compromise accomplished, everyone's happy.

As far as the "sex problem" goes,,, I think you have already figured out that your boyfriend is equating your lack of sex-drive to mean a lack of sexual attraction on your part. You may need to kick up the romance another notch by giving him more hugs & kisses during the day,,, and,,,, tell him to mix up the sex a little to make it more pleasurable for you. There are so many ways to have sex,, it would be a shame to not take advantage of all possible pleasures (withing reason of course)...There are some people who only enjoy anal sex and nothing else is pleasurable,, this is a problem of which I have no solution for, so I'll leave it at that.

Sincerely,
Jim

[Rareboy]

Hey Rareboy - He's my boyfriend because I do still love him, and he still (I hope haha) loves me. Would it be different if we didn't live together... I don't know. I wouldn't say we're heading toward an inevitable end - not this early anyway. As for the flat, we're both in a contract to live here and it's a one bedroom apartment (with a cool fold out of the wall bed in the lounge) so there's no way out of here... nor would I want to move home at this point in my uni degree. It's not a cheap place to live in by yourself so if one of us went someone's going to be paying double rent. I'm in no way in a race to hurt him though, and I don't think he'd do that to me - things would have to turn ugly, real ugly for that to happen - and if that day ever comes then I'll pull the cord on the thing before anyone can get hurt.



Hey Eth21 thanks - he also has a lot on his plate, does a medicine based degree so lots of placement hours etc. before he qualifies.

Forgetting about the relationship - this is the toughest time for both of us academically. We have job offers, now we need to forfil the grades to get them. I think, time is needed, I'm not a rational decision maker and I'm not ready to call it quits just yet. I think the stress of a break up would be too much to handle right now and I'm not ready to surrender just yet.

Thanks for all of the feedback guys it's nice to not rant at my friends for once haha, I'm sure they're sick of me!

Seriously. I go back to the original post and I see nothing that makes me change my mind....no matter how strenuously you might protest.

One of the key clues? Three bust-ups so far.

And your mutual resentment and lack of communication and trust and respect for each other.

And the fact that you'd stay together because you couldn't handle a bust-up right now.

Over the years, I've seen a lot of relationships both gay and straight fail. In almost every case where there was a cycle of break-ups....the relationship ultimately feel apart.

So if you want to still try to make your relationship more than co-dependence and destructive behaviours then both of you need to decide that it is time to grow up and behave like mature men. No more carping, No more whining about each other to your friends...enough is enough. Because if it doesn't stop, I swear that the two of you don't stand a chance in hell of being happy.

[strider65]

zachary this may sound like a strange question but I was wondering what astrological signs you both are.

I read the Tarot and that might tell a lot to people who believe in that sort of thing.

If you took the time to write such an eloquent post, it sounds as if you have some feelings for him. That is something that is rare. I would say if you took the time to write that, don't throw in the towel just yet.

[Zachary]

Oh, hey guys never expected many replies so um... I'll go through each one and then kind of give a "stance" ... I'm not discounting anyones advice either I'm taking it all on board.

If you took the time to write such an eloquent post, it sounds as if you have some feelings for him. That is something that is rare. I would say if you took the time to write that, don't throw in the towel just yet.

Hey Strider, I don't believe in that stuff but Capricorn and Aries which I know are apparently opposites haha. Which is kind of true. I'd say um, yeah I don't want to throw in the towel just yet - I'm not a backerdownerer.

And your mutual resentment and lack of communication and trust and respect for each other.

And the fact that you'd stay together because you couldn't handle a bust-up right now.

So if you want to still try to make your relationship more than co-dependence and destructive behaviours then both of you need to decide that it is time to grow up and behave like mature men. No more carping, No more whining about each other to your friends...enough is enough. Because if it doesn't stop, I swear that the two of you don't stand a chance in hell of being happy.

I get where you're coming from, and I understand the importance of communication. It's something we've both admitted that needs work on. I wouldn't say our relationship is co-dependant, I've got a strong social group completely separate from my love life, and another that kind of over laps it. I don't need him to survive. The destructive bit is a worry, it's what I fear most is that we destroy each other. Anyway I'll kind of sum this up in a moment...

have learned over the last 39 years together,, that there are almost always two ways to do something and end up with the same result. So I have learned to bite-my-tongue and let him do things his way. Your boyfriend will have to learn how to let you do things your way ( just as I had too) in order for there to be happiness & harmony within the relationship...

As far as the "sex problem" goes,,, I think you have already figured out that your boyfriend is equating your lack of sex-drive to mean a lack of sexual attraction on your part. You may need to kick up the romance another notch by giving him more hugs & kisses during the day,,, and,,,, tell him to mix up the sex a little to make it more pleasurable for you.

The top bit made me smile haha, yeah. I think back to what I said to Rareboy we're both quite independent for many reasons, we've learned to look after ourselves and I think part of this, is the pride aspect of learning to be independent but at the same time understand that it's okay for us to need each other. For me that's been an issue as I'm so used to doing what I want when I want and how I want, and then sorting out my own issues myself.

As for sex, I am hands down guilty at not being the most affectionate fool. On valentines this year I went all out, however due to the problem downstairs I had (diagnosed a few days before ffs) I couldn't act upon anything which is kind of frustrating. I can do cute little gestures gifts etc. but I'm not so good at the sex side. I was so used to having him always instigate I never saw reason to be the instigator which is something I'm learning as I'm no sex guru.

In my thoughts, I wonder if this picking will eventually pull your confidence down to a point where, when he starts in on your friends, you will then start socializing less and less. Become more secluded, which he can then use to pick some more and manipulate.... It's an abusive cycle, and it ends with you fucked up in the head because of the damage he caused.

As for my social group, no chance of that happening. We're really close (my friends) and they know more about me than I feel comfortable with - so there's no chance of my relationship ever ruining my social life as it's something I'll never compromise on. They're my friends, have been for a long time, and ain't no man taking that away from me - like I'd never do the same to them. I think it's important to have shared friends yes, but at the same time people on either side with little connection so you can go talk to them without any relationship issues becoming some massive gossip drama.

Well, either it matters or it doesn't. That you've come to this forum complaining about your relationship, presenting your partner as an overly critical OCD control freak and yourself as a hapless victim of his insensitivity, asking for advice on what to do about this -- well all that suggests that it DOES matter to you, that this issue (and whatever issue is beneath it) is NOT going away and won't go away until you truly understand one another -- IF that is even possible.

Understanding is important, I think we need to get a better grasp on that. We've got a farley good understanding of how we work but when it comes to how we think and feel, I think that's still a huge learning curb. It takes two to tangle and I am in no way perfect. I admit when I wrote that forum post I did so too soon before I'd cooled down so it's angst-ridden and me vs the world.

As to what I want to do, what I'm doing, and what I'm going to do. First off, is talk more. I've told him stop criticising me, he isn't really noticing it and I've said I'll work harder to let him no my mood so it's not a huge shock when I'm suddenly ready to explode.

As for going forward, I don't want a vicious cycle, I don't want a destructive relationship, I don't want to be critiqued all the time and I don't want there to be this wall of stiff upper lift where we pretend to be okay when we're not (I'm 100% guilty for this). So, not right now - I said we kissed and made up which is a bit of an exaggeration of the fact we both apologised for being dicks, discussed our issues lightly and admitted there was blame on both sides and things needed to be changed. Since, things have calmed down and we're not arguing at all. Do we need to talk properly? Yes. However now is not the right time - for reasons I'll not totally go into there's a lot of stress on both sides from uni etc.

As we're both stressed and stubborn as fuck I think from experience now is not the best time to be having deep discussions - as things are still fresh and we've not had a great deal of time to reflect on things. So I'm going to just politely say "Once our lodger has gone, and we've had a week to cool down, get the stressful things sorted, we need to have sit down and chat about us, our problems and what we're going to do going forward". That way we can just focus on us, not "oh I have an essay due in" - but us. We've both agreed to be more relaxed toward one another, and help each other out in the meantime. As he's working 12 hour shifts currently it's kind of hard to get that time to talk when you literally see each other for breakfast and bed.

A testing period will be from that conversation ending until the last week of our tenancy together. See how we go, hopefully well - but whatever happens good or bad it'll be the making of breaking of us and make it very clear if we have a future together.

Right now I think after 19 months together that's a good option, it's not quitting it's not hiding - it's accepting there's issues and trying to overcome them together, to see if we can.

[MikeW]

...Understanding is important, I think we need to get a better grasp on that. We've got a farley good understanding of how we work but when it comes to how we think and feel, I think that's still a huge learning curb....

To me "communication" is 1) knowing my truth; 2) expressing my truth; and 3) hearing the truth expressed by someone else. "Hearing" meaning not just hearing the words spoken or seeing the expressions or gestures or observing the behaviors, it means actually "getting" where they're coming from, "understanding" how whatever it is being expressed IS true for them. In this light, "hearing" or "listening" to someone else's truth is at least 50% of what communication is about.

The problem is most often WE DO NOT KNOW OUR OWN TRUTH. That is to say, there is a truth within us that we may not be 100% conscious of. Most gay guys should understand this principal from their own experience of "coming out to themselves." Everyone seems to go through a different process but, for most everyone, there is a point where one has to admit it to one's self, has to "come out to one's self" and begin the process of accepting "this is who I am, this is my truth." It was always the truth but it was not always a consciously known or "owned" truth.

I think this happens on a lot of levels about a lot of things in our lives.

What is the truth behind your BF's "need" to critique you "all the time". When you ask him he may say what he believes to be the truth for him, that it is about you needing to know how to do things correctly (for example). But is there a deeper truth that he doesn't admit to himself (much less express to you)?

I could guess all sorts of things but, not knowing him, these guesses would be just that. But whenever I find myself being overly critical of others (or being the subject of a lot of criticism myself), I have to ask myself, "what is really going on here?" What is the emotional dynamic that is driving this behavior? If I can't let myself FEEL this and KNOW it for what it is, if I can't let myself OWN it as something that is MY responsibility, I'm going to forever project it outwards onto the other person: "You're wrong, I'm right."

We can look at this from another angle, too. What's with this "with holding" on your part? Sure we can logically and rationally say that there are inappropriate times to bring things up. That may very well be true (just as it may very well be true that at times you do things "incorrectly") but that really isn't the point.

What I'm looking at is the emotional dynamic -- what is behind your NOT sharing something in the moment? Again, I'm not saying you always "should," exactly, but if you haven't really looked at it, haven't really understood why you'd prefer to let things build up until you boil over -- then you don't really know your own truth around this.

Learning to communicate involves knowing myself better and finding ways of expressing that to the important people in my life. It also involves me setting aside my own reactions to what other people say or do and listening more closely to what is going on inside them. It's learning to be empathetic, sensitive, toward myself and the other. It means accepting that I may NOT know my truth, but only 'think' or 'assume' that I do.

Sometimes knowing our own truth is the most frightening thing of all.

[LJay]

There is no doubt that you guys have some talking to do. In the meantime, you can continue to look at yourself and try to look from his side. What is is he harping on and why? Does he complain to oters because he is not good at talking to you? You mention your own ups and downs. Maybe you need som counseling for your own sake. In the long run, though, it sounds like the two of you had better learn to give and take verbally and emotionally, to explore some role reversals and variety in bed and perhpas to get out of your rut of not getting along.