FREE Relationship Repair and Advice while you wait

[himself]

First of all [MENTION=21041]Jay[/MENTION]L, why are you posting anonymously? Uncheck that little box for heaven's sake!

Maybe he's posting from Virge's account but so he's posting anonymously to distinguish himself from Virge. If he made his own account, the some of his first posts wouldn't show up for ages.

[Virge]

[MENTION=22336]himself[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20947]MikeW[/MENTION] .... Yeh, he was using my profile. I zonked out in bed with the lap top with GS open. He moved it and saw this thread and what you guys had written, started reading and wanted to reply.

And the goofy mofo didn't tell me about it... Hahahahaha! It had me confused for a sec when I saw it.

[Virge]

[MENTION=20947]MikeW[/MENTION]

I'm reading your last comment now and got to part about "peer facilitated" group situation; not something led by a professional psychologist.

That's definitely what we're talking about. There's very little a psychologist could say about relationships that wouldn't come across being more meaningful coming from people who've been through the same issues and resolved them.... Just like we do in here...

Three nights a week Jay "runs" groups... three at a time. He sits in his office doing other things and randomly listens in or doesn't or whatever. He's there for people who want to meet with him one on one and if one of the groups need him they go get him. He goes in towards the end of each and they give him a summary of what they've talked about etc.

And when he comes home we have a ritual that we came up with the first of June... Before we kiss or anything... He turns my cell phone off..... hands me his so I can screen calls and texts to keep him from getting anything but the important ones. In other words under this roof he's not allowed to be a psychologist or discuss it. He messed up and learned the hard way not to do that when a B&B guest asked him what he did......... so for a whole weekend he was being quizzed. If anyone asks me I tell them he's an office manager at a clinic. hahahahahahahaha!

What I'm getting at is he really won't be much of a participant except as my other half.

As an experiment here in our area, I'm willing to host a couples support group here at the house on Wednesday nights when he doesn't get in until 9. This time of year there will be almost no conflict with B&B guests since they reliably check in, take showers and head out and don't come back in until late (except in bad weather) If any of them want to participate that's great. This morning I talked to 3 solid couples who are volunteering to join in to help, 22 yrs, 12 and 5. So we're pretty much good to go here!

Also MikeW I wish I had your skills at writing. It's tough for me.
[MENTION=20933]LJay[/MENTION] the article you read on MoodGYM and My Compass... please tell me they are on line and you can link me to it. I've heard him mention those and want to know more about them.

[LJay]

Here ya go, Virge:

https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

https://www.mycompass.org.au/

I am a klutz at setting up links so you can just copy and paste. [Hmm. It seems to have done it for me.]

Interesting stuff.

[Steve]

[MENTION=21084]Virge[/MENTION]
Please convey to Jay how lovely it is to finally know the man behind the nuclear Energizer Bunny on RedBull (said with love and admiration). It could be worse V, I could have used your nickname (I would never, never...). He is a very sweet man, but remind him that I'm one big bipolar mess even if I do have a couple of brain cells that spark when I wind them up like a Model T Ford and a few neural synapses that don't resemble Swiss cheese on an MRI. That Mark and I have lasted 30 years through the good, the bad, and the ugly is merely a testament to two people who are so stubborn that we won't allow our relationship to fail. That and we're kind of perfect bookends with a great story between us.

I've been in groups with people before. Can't say I really enjoyed the experience or received much practical, viable advice. It was a peer led group and the peer was underwhelming in terms of stimulating/challenging people into any manner of dynamic thinking. The whole mess was far different from Mike's more social group setting, which I find much more appealing.

I'm glad Virge cleared the confusion away considering the way groups were handled and Jay's role in steering the program. I'll only add that I would be cautious couching such groups in terms gay marital support. While that may be their essence, it feels like a stone's throw away from placing it under the mental health umbrella. Too many of us know the societal stigma involved when people mention anything regarding mental health issues. Attempting to refer one person, let alone a couple, to any such group might prove to be more difficult than if the idea were repackaged (rebranded?) as something more benign.

Gay people need to be reminded that their education and socialization skills while coming of age were most often incomplete. While most gay people have, or are in the process of coming to terms with being gay, they often don't realize how unprepared they might be in terms of maintaining an intimate healthy relationship for an extended period of time. We are already behind the learning curve of heterosexuals almost from the moment we discover our sexuality.

Gay people are at a disadvantage due to a lack of real socialization during important formative school age years. Most gay kids don't have the same school age experience as heterosexual children. Besides not often having any manner of emotional support from compassionate, knowledgeable adults, many of us also cannot date other gay people openly, public displays of affection were (are still) verboten, and many are still bullied into silence or ridicule. Gay/straight alliances and programs like "It Gets Better" have helped, but only marginally.

Our only role models, until recent years, have been our observations of heterosexual coupling, both in real life and plastered everywhere in mainstream society. And when we look at how straight people view relationships and marriage, we're quickly reminded that many ideas with which straight people model their relationships are based on vastly outdated mores. Let's face it, although young people couldn't tell you anything about them, many heterosexual ideals of relationships haven't evolved much beyond 1950's sitcoms like Father Knows Best, Leave It To Beaver, and The Donna Reed.Show. Date. Get married. Buy a house. Have children. Live happily ever after. Actually when you really think about it, its no wonder that decades of discontent have bred skyrocketing rates of divorce among straight people. No one ever really taught them all the work maintaining a healthy relationship requires. Quelle surprise!

Back on point. Reminding affected gay couples that they were never adequately prepared to maintain a real relationship past the Cinderella stage might immediately remove some of the guilt gay couples feel when, as knowledgeable schooled young adults, they cannot seem to make a relationship last for any substantial period of time. None of us have really been given the tools to keep a marriage in working order. Instead we've been taught about marriage through vague, unrealistic media, or we've observed (or been a part of) the typical dysfunctional family dynamic that teaches us distrust, anger, and an all or nothing type of mentality. "You cheated! It's over! I want a divorce!". None of the tools we should have been taught are put to use. The emphasis is placed squarely on negative fear, anger, mistrust emotions. Communication is near dead at that point, and without that, forget marriage, you may as well have had a hook up on Gindr.

So while I agree that peer led groups aren't the best method for couples seeking help, I believe there does have to be some type of remedial course in relationships that teaches gay people entering a marriage not only the tools of relationship survival, but how to employ them effectively. How to recognize when one person or the other is falling back on the bad habits they learned from their past. How to maintain honest communication, even when you know its going to hurt the other person. What to do with the fallout of conflict and hurt. Remembering that anger solves nothing and listening promotes learning and understanding. Knowing that taking a couple of days apart to calm a situation isn't the same thing as breaking up and losing a relationship. Realizing that an intimate relationship with another person isn't an all or nothing proposition. If a relationship can't flex and breathe as it progresses its likely to fail in some manner.

I've read Virge's past "manifesto's" on relationships, and I tend to agree with him completely. And yes, those cries for help from gay people concerning infidelity, maintaining a good relationship, refraining from making the moves on straight people "who they know, they just know, are secretly lusting after them"... Those happen here all the time. So having a ready made post with good advice that a member has given ad nauseam could be very useful.

Frankly I think the gay community needs to look at what a marriage really is between the two people who enter it. We can't model ourselves like heterosexuals; look at their divorce rate. We need to enter into marriage not necessarily with the singular idea of date, marry, house, kids, etc., but alternately as a construct that may be a coupling whose diversity, or left of center chemistry, sexual needs and wants, work for the best interests of both people who love each other. We need to sweep that old ideal out the door and recognize that a marriage may constitute vastly different things from couple to couple. And really, for many of us we really need to learn to stop judging other people's relationships. No one's marriage should be fodder for mob mentality judgement or made a parity like a sitcom. The underpinnings of any marriage are no one's business unless the couple make them known, or there are violence/legal issues involved. Isn't the age of the haunty, judgy, snitty gay person over yet? It should be.
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[East]

[MENTION=21461]Steve[/MENTION] ...can I just repeat this....

Frankly I think the gay community needs to look at what a marriage really is between the two people who enter it. We can't model ourselves like heterosexuals; look at their divorce rate. We need to enter into marriage not necessarily with the singular idea of date, marry, house, kids, etc., but alternately as a construct that may be a coupling whose diversity, or left of center chemistry, sexual needs and wants, work for the best interests of both people who love each other. We need to sweep that old ideal out the door and recognize that a marriage may constitute vastly different things from couple to couple. And really, for many of us we really need to learn to stop judging other people's relationships. No one's marriage should be fodder for mob mentality judgement or made a parity like a sitcom. The underpinnings of any marriage are no one's business unless the couple make them known, or there is violence/legal issues involved. Isn't the age of the haunty, judgy snitty gay person over yet? It should be.

This should be part of the new gay gospel...

[East]

As most of you know..I have been with my man for a long time...and it will be 30 years this September....

...and I don't really think anyone ever really pays any attention to my advice LOL...which is cool...but the thing is...

IF I was seeking a relationship and advice...I would certainly ask the people who have been successful what their secrets are....

[Virge]

WOW @Stevie eeee !!!!!!!

That was everything I'd like to see the be about!!!!! I've been working on my thing about infidelity, editing it, really struggling to keep it from being a novel and felt like giving up. Now I'm psyched up to get back on it.

I'll be back later with some things. My excitement level just tripled after after reading that. Thanks.

[East]

^^^^Infidelity^^^^

Easy solution..and one I am practicing myself...

First off...Neither one of us promised fidelity to the other...at my insistance...and it ISN'T BECAUSE WE ARE IN AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP...we aren't...or because we are not monogamous...we are....

It is simply because no one has any business promising fidelity to anyone else...because NO ONE has a clue what will unfold in their life...and what choices they will make...and even for the ones who swear they are the reincarnation of the fucking Virgin Mary...they STILL didn't know...and besides...an immaculate conception (***cough**cough***)...three men show up with gifts...uh...if it happened today..it would be an episode of Maury Povich's Who's The Daddy....just sayin'.....

...so all of the straight people who swore to be faithful and weren't should have been a terrible warning...not a shining example......

...and they weren't "bad people"...just humans.....who thought they could control their life...and guess what...you may very well have a path in front of you that you aren't even aware of.

As Albert Einstein said...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity....

So..me and my BF promised to be honest...EASY TO DO!...no matter what happens.....

...and I think it is much worse to lie to your SO than to have sex with someone else...no comparison really....

...and besides...if your partner REALLY wants to fuck someone else...LET THEM!...just make sure they take pictures and share them with you :biggrin: ....

If they fly away..they were never really yours to begin with.... and trying to "make" someone stay with you if they don't want to be there ..EEK :eek: That is the start of a tangled web to be woven....

Too many people want to be everything to the other person...and you might come close...but really...what a burden that would be?...and life is too short... so pick your burdens carefully....or you might end up dragging a fucking U Haul behind you....

As [MENTION=21461]Steve[/MENTION] said...define your own relationship and design it for the individuals involved... and keep everyone else out of it....

[Virge]

[MENTION=18508]East[/MENTION] I was in a hurry when I made that last comment and didn't even what you wrote before it.....

It was one of those moments like I've had in th past about wishing Andy would give me a "thanks button" that works in size 7 type....

You are right... That needs to be the new gay gospel......