Hang on young, this is a long one. You deserve the best possible advice I can give and the most important things I can point out for you to think about.
Honestly young, I do think you've made your choice simply by the way you've written at length about guy 1. I have to tell you through, the thoroughness of detail of the highs and lows with which you describe this emotional tango with guy 1 only reinforce my belief that you know on some level that this relationship isn't going to last long and that you're going to be very hurt when it ends.
My reading of this situation is that your guy 1 is clutching at you, afraid to lose you all the while pushing you to look elsewhere at your options. All the tearful "I love you's" happen when you're both overwrought emotionally. It is easy to say I love you in the heat of tears. His reaction of "I love you", must have seemed sincere to you. Ask yourself though, if he was saying it in reaction to your emotions, or it it something he felt he was expected to say in order to keep you in his life. Remember how upset and confused you were/are. Are you certain you're comprehending the situation clearly? Be sure.
When he had to surmise that you wanted to say "I love you" back to him because you couldn't bring yourself to say it does not reassure me that he is someone with the integrity to wait patiently for you to be able to say those important words first. Personally if I were him I wouldn't have even tried to put those three words into your mouth. I would have waited days and even weeks for you to be able to say them yourself because then I would know that you were completely sure of yourself. I would know that you were confident in how you feel and I would know that you were ready to commit to the kind of relationship that I want with you. I would have felt like I was pushing you into words you were not ready to say... (Please remember when I phrase the situation in this manner that I am placing myself in his position and am only applying my own logic coupled with many years of experience to bear).
You have to look objectively at the time you've spent with guy 1, and that won't be easy. All of your emotions seem so close to the surface, raw and all encompassing. With that in mind young, you have to realize that massive confusion is bound to be the result. Try to wipe out all those conversations with both guys and
concentrate on how you feel and what you know to be true.
Guy 1 isn't offering you a relationship out in the open, where you can date, hold hands in public (if you desire that), or acknowledge you to his friends and workmates. He's offering you what he can, which may be a deep love, or may (as I strongly suspect) be more like a companionship based on his need not to be alone. I think he wants --needs-- both a sexual outlet and to feel the love of someone in a private setting in which he risks nothing of his own security. He'd be the one behind you, in denial of his nature, nothing of himself in jeopardy to feel pain of rejection, or shame of admitting that he is gay. Beyond that, he also wouldn't know the feeling of joy, the weight lifted off him that comes with acknowledging to the world who he is at the core. He would be hiding you always.
Make no mistake, your guy 1 knows that you're in confusion and emotional turmoil. It really isn't hard, especially for guys in the closet that are deathly afraid of being exposed, to read the cues of other people. Breaking up with an old boyfriend, coming out to your father, see-sawing between two different men -- guy 1 knows exactly how off center you are. From my point of view that is one of the clearest reasons I would never put the words "I love you" in another man's mouth before he was ready to say them himself. You have to be on level footing, thinking clearly and not squarely in the center of a whirlwind of emotion before guy 1 should push you in any direction.
I'm not saying that your guy 1 is intentionally trying to manipulate you. My intuition tells me that he is desperately clutching at you for his need not to be alone, and that on some level, perhaps both consciously and subconsciously, he is steering you toward him by saying the things you want to hear from him.
Look at it objectively, he's not backing those words up with action. Instead of taking you out for a day to a restaurant, a drink, perhaps a movie for your birthday, he brings all the trappings for a celebration back behind closed doors. Yes, you probably did have a good time, think that he was thoughtful to remember your birthday and help you celebrate it. Truth be told I believe his intentions were probably meant sincerely. But remember that he did only as much as he could do without going further. None of your friends were invited and you stayed in talking. You were riding the happiness that someone was kind enough to remember your birthday, and he was able to talk to you through the fuzz of your emotions. Whether intentional on his part or not, he told you things that you wanted to hear. How could that not sway you toward him?
At the same time he is telling you his feelings he also on some level must feel enough moral reserve and warn you of what you're getting if you accept him into your life. This bit you relate is telling:
Quote:Then i said "Ok being honest again, i've been talking to someone else ever since you said that". Him - "I can see why you would". Me - "I want you though, i always have" Him - "But i might hurt you".
You're being brutally honest with him and he's outright warning you, however gently, that he "might hurt you". By saying that he's given himself permission, a back door away from guilt, to leave you in the future.
What happens if, in the future, you tire of being in his shadow, hidden away? That you need to be among the living and you really want him to be out in the world with him --as your boyfriend, the man he loves? Will he also feel like you're trying to drag him out of the closet? His saying his ex wants to "out him" feels like he's painted his past partner aggressively. Portraying another person as someone who wants to "out you" rather than simply saying, "he wanted me to be more open, to step out of the closet and acknowledge myself honestly, and I wasn't ready for that". One of those characterizations point to someone dead terrified of the truth and ready to tear down his ex's character to save his own reputation. The other option characterizes his ex as a gentler, less aggressive person in nature. He takes no responsibility for not coming cut, or even at a minimum of not being ready to be who he is openly as a reason for the break up. Instead he paints his ex as crazy, always with the caveat that he was, and still is, determined to "out him". Do you know if this is true? Have you met his ex partner? Why would you ever be worried about guy 1 going back to his ex if he thinks she's crazy and poses a risk to him?
And you may be sure that he also told his ex at some point that he loved him. Not many people will enter into a relationship without some declaration of feeling, of love. Maybe his ex did know that he was still in the closet and maybe he did make the mistake of thinking eventually he could persuade guy 1 to step into the light. In my experience its usually a big mistake to enter a relationship thinking you can change your partner somehow, even to his own benefit. The more guy 1 is asked to come out of the closet the more determined he'll be to dig in and resist.
So ask yourself, are you willing to sacrifice your honesty to people and acknowledge that you're going to live in the closet with him. People will say "If you really love him...". If the conditions didn't include hiding yourself, or you stepping back from the tough but positive decisions that you've made in your life, I might think that you're asking too much of him. The "If you really loved him you would..." logic is a trap. It doesn't leave you any options for what are reasonable requests for change. People do have to make compromises when in a relationship. It's necessary.
Sometimes when the compromise is too great, weighted more on one side than the other with no chance that the scales will ever to tip back to an even balance, you have to acknowledge that you're giving up too much. He has to demonstrate on some credible level that he's willing to begin to meet you halfway. That there may be a time when he is ready to step out of the shadows. In the end with your best interests in mind he should see that it is to both of your detriment if you stay hidden away with him as a condition of the relationship.
If he does agree to compromise and try to be more open, I believe he must at least give you some kind of evidence that the words he says are backed with action. At a bare minimum you both could attend couples therapy: you coached in how to best aid him with positive reinforcement without being overbearing, he into acknowledging that he is leading half a life, that the weight of barring himself from the world is damaging to his self esteem. Therapists are bound not to discuss the details of a therapy session. His secret would remain safe. Steps toward a better life and proof to you that he is willing to try and change, would go a long way to backing those three words, "I love you."
Quote:So we were lying in bed and i said "Can i ask you something. What are we?" Him - "I think of you as my.... i don't like to say the word but you know what i mean" (he was referring to boyfriend).
He can't even say the word boyfriend, instead letting you define how he feels. Or is he letting you assume how he feels about you? Again he's given himself an out about commitment, however indirectly.
In any case if he's afraid to say the word, and you're afraid to say the words "I love you", that should tell you something profound about the nature of the basis of your relationship.
Quote:Wrongfully i did keep talking to Guy 2.
Guy 1 encouraged you to do this. Maybe he did it with the best intentions. My apologies for seeming so suspicious, but I cannot help feeling that he is not all that altruistic. The end result in my mind, it that he is steering you toward thinking he wants the best for you by allowing you the illusion of choice. He can afford to do this because you have just spent the evening supposedly being honest with each other. You might have been trying to be as honest as you could, even as completely confused as you are. He, on the other hand is saying "I love you" when you press him for a definition of what you are to one another and gives you a lovely birthday surprise. This comes after your disappointment of being stood up from a date from guy 2 (yet again). Giving you the freedom to talk to guy 2 in light of guy 1's attention to you, in view of your disappointment with guy 2's failings, feels suspect.
I back what I say here by telling you that you felt "wrongful" in continuing to talk to guy 2. You wouldn't feel guilty if guy 1 had honestly had your best interest at heart. You would know that he only wants you to feel sure of your own feelings.That he felt confident enough whether the situation swung in his favor or not, that you had chosen based upon your true feelings and in your own best interest for happiness. To me that's real love: Wanting what is best for the person you love even if it costs you the pain of loss. Putting your well being above his own. While it is true that his own self preservation must be considered, he also must acknowledge what is best for both of you. Love shouldn't be selfish. Not when you're so obviously messed up anyway.
Quote:I had also caught him on a dating app 2 weeks ago. I questioned him on the dating app. He said he was just on looking at his messages and he didn't have any. He thought it was cute i was jealous. And he could see it bothered me.
Again, your words. Having the dating app of his phone doesn't bother me. There are bound to be bits of his past life, flotsam left unattended and not yet discarded. Having the dating app on his phone is circumstantial information to me: it doesn't by itself prove the intention to cheat. That he was looking for messages on it, that's a horse of a different color. Wha?, He has some guys who are "just friends" on his dating app that he keeps in touch with platonically? This seems unlikely. Then he diffuses your mistrust by flattering you. "How cute, you're jealous". If he could see that it bothered you, he could show you how easy it is to delete the app from his phone. Show you his computer and delete any corresponding apps there. If it were me and I felt strongly about you, the cost of proving it wouldn't be difficult to illustrate.
Not long ago Virge mentioned something in one of his posts about he and his man. It was something like when Virge got home he turned off his phone and gave it to his boyfriend, and his boyfriend who sometimes got emergency calls that came via his occupation and thus needed to know when there might be a crisis he was obligated to handle, gave his phone to Virge who would then screen his boyfriends calls to separate the emergencies from the distractions. This action gave me great respect for both of them. They back their commitment with action. They solved any potential issue of mistrust by nipping it in the bud. Additionally, they insured that there wouldn't be any distractions away from the time they spend together. This is a couple who acknowledge a possible problem, talk about it, and implement a solution that both of them could live with.
That is the equal footing that should be the basis for any relationship. Mutual respect. Honesty.
Quote:Guy 2 is perfect but i don't love him as much as guy 1 yet i still feel the need for him in my life. He's been really open with me and he's tried to be there for me despite me pushing him away.
If you don't want to be with guy 2, that's fine. Keep him as a friend if possible. If not, be grateful you could be a part of his life even for a short while. If nothing else he's given you some perspective. A choice about what could be, even if he happened not to be the guy that could fulfill that kind of relationship. He might not be Mr. Right, but there are other fish in the sea.
Slow down. It really isn't a good idea to make large decisions regarding very important parts of your life when you are under stress, when you are unsure, or when you are afraid and confused. Take the time you need to make sure. There isn't any rush is there? Shouldn't you be sure of what you want, what you need, before you place your heart at risk? Let your emotions settle. Be confident about your decisions. You can learn lessons from a failed romance, but wouldn't you rather do everything you can to insure that your relationship succeeds? Remember, if this love fails, you won't be the only one hurt. Not even if he pretends otherwise.
I'll stop harping at you. You know your heart. I hope I've at least given you food for thought.
Best,
Steve
I love two men.... Can't pick one. Help please
Capricorn
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Virgo
mile:
" That's what i got back. So i just told him i was gonna go drive about and be alone. On that drive i kept listening to songs shouting at myself for falling for him so hard. One of the songs was Wings by Birdy. He did text me half an hour later and asked me if i was okay. I just told him i had calmed down a bit and when could i next see him. Because i want to talk to him about this. He said tuesday. So i shall see him then.