Child Behaviour ODD?? PLEASE READ!!

[Anonymous]

My relationship with the family is that im their mums new partner.

i dont like to consider myself step parent or gaurdian as i have no legal rights over the children but i do like to think i support them.

i have been a member of the family for around 2-3 months now

all the advice is great thanks guys.

anymore feedback would be great too.

nothing since has happened and i think he has figured out he was out of line.

I havent sat him down and spoken to him yet though i dont know how to approach it without him knowing his mum told me.

i dont want to embarrass him

[meridannight]

I havent sat him down and spoken to him yet though i dont know how to approach it without him knowing his mum told me.

i dont want to embarrass him

i still think you should talk with the boy directly. he needs an understanding/sympathetic male presence. women can't ever be that even under the best intentions.

embarrassing or not, you're the adult in this scenario. you're the one who decides what to do. so, have an adult conversation with him. he has to suck it up and listen sometimes, whether he feels comfortable or not.

some of the things in life feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean they're bad for you. at his age it just means he hasn't been exposed to them before. opening up and talking on this subject just reaffirms it to him that this is a normal thing to talk about. if for nothing else, then just to let him know he can come to you if he has any questions/doubts on the topic. he's not gonna go to his mother when he needs to know about something concerning his penis. you're the male authority. act like it.

[Edward]

It's not ok for 12 year old to do something like that with 5 year old. If they would be the same age, it would be different, children sometimes experiment with their siblings and explore their bodies but that's no the case here. The older boy needs a good spanking and that's it.

[LJay]

Mom should still set the policies and directions. She is legally the head of the household. True, having a guy to talk to is great, but Mom should be the one to say just how far she wants her son to pursue things. Is she open to him being gay? Does she have views about pre-marital sex for young ones? Is she aware of how things go for her son's peer group regarding sex? Is she educating him in all aspects of sex, including reproduction and STI's? It's a big job being a parent and not completely an objective situation. She needs to be the bellweather. A partner can be supportive but is not a parent until an adoption takes place. Mom might even want to talk with the partner about what she wants and then talk to the son , saying that if he wants to it is OK for him to talk with the partner. That way the son does not have to know what the partner is privy to but just that it is OK to talk things over. Given the right family atmosphere there is no reason why a boy can't talk with his Mom about his genitals, sex, or anything else.

[Anocxu]

Mom should still set the policies and directions. She is legally the head of the household. True, having a guy to talk to is great, but Mom should be the one to say just how far she wants her son to pursue things. Is she open to him being gay? Does she have views about pre-marital sex for young ones? Is she aware of how things go for her son's peer group regarding sex? Is she educating him in all aspects of sex, including reproduction and STI's? It's a big job being a parent and not completely an objective situation. She needs to be the bellweather. A partner can be supportive but is not a parent until an adoption takes place. Mom might even want to talk with the partner about what she wants and then talk to the son , saying that if he wants to it is OK for him to talk with the partner. That way the son does not have to know what the partner is privy to but just that it is OK to talk things over. Given the right family atmosphere there is no reason why a boy can't talk with his Mom about his genitals, sex, or anything else.

^^^
This

2-3 months in is another reason to let mom handle it.
Not being rude..
Not being disrespectful when I say you probably shouldn't be around when the talk goes down.

Now AFTER the talk .. you will need to be present ..
you just might be the soothing factor that everyone in the household needs .


On the other hand...
You have the best "position in the house"
You can simply be a becon of support for whatever happens. Look at it this way..
You can play oblivious..
You do not have to reveal your stance on the matter..
You can approach the kids with hugs and cheer..an incident like this usually throws a household into a period of awkwardness.

Now you!
I think you are amazing..
I love the way you dug into this issue .
'Mommy' is lucky to have a partner like you.

Now when you start putting YOUR Christmas list together ..



^^^^
If something like this isn't #1 on your list...

I will resent you..
Hugs..
:-P

[Beaux]

not uncommon.

do not get people outside family and close friends involved in this. it's a family matter. (you will betray his trust if you involve strangers to this intimate part of his life and publicize something he doesn't know how to feel about himself yet, and he will have an adverse reaction to that and you).

of course, the 12-year-old was out of line, but he is not capable of understanding exactly how he was out of line. you can't make him see it like that just yet.

his parents, preferably his father, should talk to him about sex. that's the obvious part. actually, i'm thinking some adult male who he is close to should talk to him too (an uncle, maybe; or a close family friend). kids that age are usually strongly averse to talking/listening to their parents on this subject. parents should talk to him, but someone the kid himself considers a friend, and actually listens to should also approach him about it (if there exists such a person).

he is at an age where the hormones are starting to kick in, and if the parents haven't had the talk with him yet, now is the time. it should be made clear to him that what he's feeling is not wrong, that it's perfectly normal, actually. but that he can't live out his urges on his brother. don't yell at him, don't scold him, don't lecture him. talk to him openly, educate him on basic sexual topics, like masturbation, sexuality, safe sex, and consent. (the latter part is really what needs to be raised with him). he probably already knows how to find all these subjects on the internet anyway, so censorship -- like that about sexuality -- is useless. overall he needs an understanding authority figure to make it clear that there are certain lines that the boy can't cross without making him feel like pleasuring himself or having someone else pleasure him is wrong.

that's how i would go about it.

While I normally agree with you, in this instance I cannot help but notice that the steps you are advocating are virtually the same steps that the Duggar family took when their oldest son, Josh Duggar, molested his sisters.

I think some counseling is in order for the both children. "Keeping it in the family", though an approiate incest meme, is really just sweeping it under the table.

~Beaux

[Steve]

My relationship with the family is that im their mums new partner.

i dont like to consider myself step parent or gaurdian as i have no legal rights over the children but i do like to think i support them.

i have been a member of the family for around 2-3 months now

all the advice is great thanks guys.

anymore feedback would be great too.

nothing since has happened and i think he has figured out he was out of line.

I havent sat him down and spoken to him yet though i dont know how to approach it without him knowing his mum told me.

i dont want to embarrass him

My advice will probably sound pushy. Too many people have children and then don't put in the hard work to make sure those kids have the tools they need to have the possibility of leading successful lives. Far too many parents leave life lessons as the ultimate teacher. They leave peers to teach the truth, concepts about society, sexuality, the value and difference of common sense and smart reasoning to their children. It is good to learn from the world around you, but that alone can't be the only teacher. No parent can guarantee a happy or successful life for a child, but you can help provide the tools to achieve it.

You and your partner need to be on the same page in terms of this situation. Talking to the child without her knowledge at such an early stage in your relationship may seem very out-of-line for her. In counterpoint, they may be her children, but if your partner is serious about including you permanently into the family dynamic, both of you should be on the same footing, and have a fairly good idea of how you want to handle this situation. And you should do it together. The child needs to know that both of you are in the discussion and both of you know the content of the discussion.

A conversation needs to take place with both boys, but primarily the older one. Remember the difference between the words discussion and judgement. The older boy needs to be made aware of the facts of sexuality. Times have changed and children are growing up faster these days. Often because parents are too embarrassed to discuss sex with their children, or perhaps some fallacy of thought regarding the preservation of the child's innocence and youth, these kids enter society unprepared to lead a full life that incorporates a healthy sexual identity. A few stern words the night it happened aren't going to cut it.

It bothers me that nothing has been said since that evening. Both you and your partner are assuming, probably wrongly, that he has learned the right lesson and correct behavior. Truthfully the lesson you've taught him is to be ashamed of sexuality. You've done this by allowing the incident pass by with a few stern words that evening, and then letting an uncomfortable silence about the topic hang in the air concerning the issue. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's cowardly not to buck up and have the difficult conversations parents must have with their children as they grow older and time dictates discussion is both necessary and appropriate. By his action, your ten year old has determined that the time is now appropriate.

The other really bad lesson you've inadvertently taught your children is that certain behavior is only bad if you get caught doing it. That's not just a bad lesson to teach a kid about sex, its a bad lesson in general. If not getting caught becomes a goal for him, your child is in for a world of hurt later in life. Kids are pretty much always going to test your limits to see what they can and can't get away with regarding behavior. It's best to teach them the difference between not getting caught and doing the right thing early on in life. Equally its probably a good idea to eventually begin to engage them on discussions about when discretion is the better part of valor.

Neither your partner or you can afford not to become engaged in your children's education, both socially and academically, at home. The more you can involve yourself in aiding him to think logically, to think compassionately, when to argue a point and when to let one go, and finding a balance between social acceptance and peer pressure, the more potential for a better future is possible for all of you. A teacher in school can only do so much toward these goals. Expecting educators to do the hard work of molding your child into the best person he can be isn't realistic without a great deal of parental involvement.

This discussion with the older son needs to have a give and take, question and answer, kind of atmosphere. Sexual experimentation between siblings, and between children of extended families, (i.e. step brothers and sisters, cousins, etc.) is not uncommon for children entering into physical sexual awareness. As a society we've taught shame about sexuality for so long that it isn't any wonder that kids turn to other kids when they begin to experience physical sexual needs.

As parents you want to be ahead to that curve and not behind it. Boundary issues, consent issues, physical contact, the nature of sex, procreation, heterosexual, homosexuality, bisexuality: as parents you must be ready to address all of these topics. Not all at once, I'm sure. But the conversation about sexuality needs to be ongoing, maintained and not be considered taboo. As a society we teach more about shame and judgement concerning sexuality than we do about actual fact. If the older child feels confident, not embarrassed, to discuss sexual issues and questions with both of you, then you will have a far better relationship with him than one where you squeamishly avoid a large aspect of his life because you've been conditioned to think that its too embarrassing a topic to discuss honestly with a son or daughter.

Perspective and boundaries are concepts which both you and your partner should address in this first conversation. Consent, appropriateness, awareness of how most people view sexuality and its various forms, and legality should be addressed. Legality is important for obvious reasons.

Kids in those blossoming stages of sexuality need to know when it is both appropriate to engage in sex (because whether you like it or not, they're probably going to), and when it could become a legal issue due to miscommunication. Respect for others sexuality and respect when another person draws the line and refuses sexual advances is an important concept to teach. Safe sexual practices are a must have discussion. Disease prevention is key, but early pregnancy is also something to consider as well.

It could be beneficial to discuss when speaking about sex is appropriate in conversation. Sexual harassment is such an easy and ambiguous legal problem that some basic do's and don'ts might be handy for him.

Keep the conversation open. Remind him not to be embarrassed to ask you questions if he has a problem with other students, an older person, or just a general question. Other adults, his peers, and conventional media like television and movies will serve to reinforce his desire to be embarrassed about sex. The only stupid questions are the ones left unasked. Even though it is often a topic of amusement, stranger danger is a real concern these days. Unwanted sexual attention or harassment and how to handle it should be a topic for discussion as well.

If the child continues to "act out" and disregards what he has been taught, you should probably consider consulting a counselor/therapist at some point. Problems should be dealt with early on so that out-of-line behaviors are corrected and do not become deeply ingrained in his personality matrix.

To the younger five year old the discussion need be simple. He just needs to know that he did nothing wrong that night. He needs to know that if he is confused he should come and talk to one or both of you. And again, he needs to be aware of stranger danger, or sexual predators. Not to make you paranoid, but child kidnapping/trafficking is a very real problem in this country. An ounce of protection is worth is worth a pound of cure.

I have lectured too long. Apologies for sometimes stating the obvious. Sometimes what should be obvious to people, isn't. Best of luck.

xx

[meridannight]

It bothers me that nothing has been said since that evening. Both you and your partner are assuming, probably wrongly, that he has learned the right lesson and correct behavior. Truthfully the lesson you've taught him is to be ashamed of sexuality. You've done this by allowing the incident pass by with a few stern words that evening, and then letting an uncomfortable silence about the topic hang in the air concerning the issue. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's cowardly not to buck up and have the difficult conversations parents must have with their children as they grow older and time dictates discussion is both necessary and appropriate. By his action, your ten year old has determined that the time is now appropriate.

The other really bad lesson you've inadvertently taught your children is that certain behavior is only bad if you get caught doing it. That's not just a bad lesson to teach a kid about sex, its a bad lesson in general. If not getting caught becomes a goal for him, your child is in for a world of hurt later in life. Kids are pretty much always going to test your limits to see what they can and can't get away with regarding behavior. It's best to teach them the difference between not getting caught and doing the right thing early on in life. Equally its probably a good idea to eventually begin to engage them on discussions about when discretion is the better part of valor.

Keep the conversation open. Remind him not to be embarrassed to ask you questions if he has a problem with other students, an older person, or just a general question. Other adults, his peers, and conventional media like television and movies will serve to reinforce his desire to be embarrassed about sex. The only stupid questions are the ones left unasked. Even though it is often a topic of amusement, stranger danger is a real concern these days. Unwanted sexual attention or harassment and how to handle it should be a topic for discussion as well.

exactly!

to the OP: you're worried about making a 12-year-old embarrassed? really? if you're afraid of making a kid uncomfortable then you are not up to the task as a parent figure.

this incident needs to be talked through with him. not doing it shows you're weak, and doesn't set a good example to the kid. you'll also end up proving you are an incompetent and weak authority, not to be taken seriously, and the kid will be even further out of your control range (yours and his mother's). as Steve said, by not talking about it you are passively reinforcing the notion that it is something shameful. he might start associating this shame as applying to normal sexual practice as well, or he might not, but you won't know. talking about it doesn't hurt anybody. it's nonsensical to forgo its benefits when there's essentially no cost to it.

While I normally agree with you, in this instance I cannot help but notice that the steps you are advocating are virtually the same steps that the Duggar family took when their oldest son, Josh Duggar, molested his sisters.

I think some counseling is in order for the both children. "Keeping it in the family", though an approiate incest meme, is really just sweeping it under the table.

never heard of them.

i am, however, speaking from first person experience. i did something like that when i was a kid, about that same age. and i turned out alright (my sometimes being an arrogant asshole aside). the boy is 12. while it might seem that he should already know to make an adult distinction between right and wrong at this age, he is still a kid, and it's not the case. give him some break.

if this becomes a repeat offense, if the kid exhibits some pathological negative behavioral tendencies, if there are other warning signs...then you have cause to worry. right now somebody lit a match in the room. you don't call the fire brigade for a burning match. that's an overreaction. so is counseling in this case.

[Pix]

While I normally agree with you, in this instance I cannot help but notice that the steps you are advocating are virtually the same steps that the Duggar family took when their oldest son, Josh Duggar, molested his sisters.

I think some counseling is in order for the both children. "Keeping it in the family", though an approiate incest meme, is really just sweeping it under the table.

~Beaux

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I just looked up Josh Duggar, but maybe wikipedia is wrong in this case? (I don't have the time right now to check sources and all that. I do know in certain situations like this that certain people will abuse the nature of wikipedia to change the story around or otherwise be misleading so it's possible that this is somehow skewed. Even so that comes off like something out of a bad TV drama.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Dugga...ontroversy

I'm seeing that they said it was wrong and given the fundie nature of the family they probably tried to shame him more for his sexual nature than for his inappropriate behavior itself. And they took him to counselors and even enrolled him in some program over it.

[Anonymous]

My advice will probably sound pushy. Too many people have children and then don't put in the hard work to make sure those kids have the tools they need to have the possibility of leading successful lives. Far too many parents leave life lessons as the ultimate teacher. They leave peers to teach the truth, concepts about society, sexuality, the value and difference of common sense and smart reasoning to their children. It is good to learn from the world around you, but that alone can't be the only teacher. No parent can guarantee a happy or successful life for a child, but you can help provide the tools to achieve it.

You and your partner need to be on the same page in terms of this situation. Talking to the child without her knowledge at such an early stage in your relationship may seem very out-of-line for her. In counterpoint, they may be her children, but if your partner is serious about including you permanently into the family dynamic, both of you should be on the same footing, and have a fairly good idea of how you want to handle this situation. And you should do it together. The child needs to know that both of you are in the discussion and both of you know the content of the discussion.

A conversation needs to take place with both boys, but primarily the older one. Remember the difference between the words discussion and judgement. The older boy needs to be made aware of the facts of sexuality. Times have changed and children are growing up faster these days. Often because parents are too embarrassed to discuss sex with their children, or perhaps some fallacy of thought regarding the preservation of the child's innocence and youth, these kids enter society unprepared to lead a full life that incorporates a healthy sexual identity. A few stern words the night it happened aren't going to cut it.

It bothers me that nothing has been said since that evening. Both you and your partner are assuming, probably wrongly, that he has learned the right lesson and correct behavior. Truthfully the lesson you've taught him is to be ashamed of sexuality. You've done this by allowing the incident pass by with a few stern words that evening, and then letting an uncomfortable silence about the topic hang in the air concerning the issue. I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's cowardly not to buck up and have the difficult conversations parents must have with their children as they grow older and time dictates discussion is both necessary and appropriate. By his action, your ten year old has determined that the time is now appropriate.

The other really bad lesson you've inadvertently taught your children is that certain behavior is only bad if you get caught doing it. That's not just a bad lesson to teach a kid about sex, its a bad lesson in general. If not getting caught becomes a goal for him, your child is in for a world of hurt later in life. Kids are pretty much always going to test your limits to see what they can and can't get away with regarding behavior. It's best to teach them the difference between not getting caught and doing the right thing early on in life. Equally its probably a good idea to eventually begin to engage them on discussions about when discretion is the better part of valor.

Neither your partner or you can afford not to become engaged in your children's education, both socially and academically, at home. The more you can involve yourself in aiding him to think logically, to think compassionately, when to argue a point and when to let one go, and finding a balance between social acceptance and peer pressure, the more potential for a better future is possible for all of you. A teacher in school can only do so much toward these goals. Expecting educators to do the hard work of molding your child into the best person he can be isn't realistic without a great deal of parental involvement.

This discussion with the older son needs to have a give and take, question and answer, kind of atmosphere. Sexual experimentation between siblings, and between children of extended families, (i.e. step brothers and sisters, cousins, etc.) is not uncommon for children entering into physical sexual awareness. As a society we've taught shame about sexuality for so long that it isn't any wonder that kids turn to other kids when they begin to experience physical sexual needs.

As parents you want to be ahead to that curve and not behind it. Boundary issues, consent issues, physical contact, the nature of sex, procreation, heterosexual, homosexuality, bisexuality: as parents you must be ready to address all of these topics. Not all at once, I'm sure. But the conversation about sexuality needs to be ongoing, maintained and not be considered taboo. As a society we teach more about shame and judgement concerning sexuality than we do about actual fact. If the older child feels confident, not embarrassed, to discuss sexual issues and questions with both of you, then you will have a far better relationship with him than one where you squeamishly avoid a large aspect of his life because you've been conditioned to think that its too embarrassing a topic to discuss honestly with a son or daughter.

Perspective and boundaries are concepts which both you and your partner should address in this first conversation. Consent, appropriateness, awareness of how most people view sexuality and its various forms, and legality should be addressed. Legality is important for obvious reasons.

Kids in those blossoming stages of sexuality need to know when it is both appropriate to engage in sex (because whether you like it or not, they're probably going to), and when it could become a legal issue due to miscommunication. Respect for others sexuality and respect when another person draws the line and refuses sexual advances is an important concept to teach. Safe sexual practices are a must have discussion. Disease prevention is key, but early pregnancy is also something to consider as well.

It could be beneficial to discuss when speaking about sex is appropriate in conversation. Sexual harassment is such an easy and ambiguous legal problem that some basic do's and don'ts might be handy for him.

Keep the conversation open. Remind him not to be embarrassed to ask you questions if he has a problem with other students, an older person, or just a general question. Other adults, his peers, and conventional media like television and movies will serve to reinforce his desire to be embarrassed about sex. The only stupid questions are the ones left unasked. Even though it is often a topic of amusement, stranger danger is a real concern these days. Unwanted sexual attention or harassment and how to handle it should be a topic for discussion as well.

If the child continues to "act out" and disregards what he has been taught, you should probably consider consulting a counselor/therapist at some point. Problems should be dealt with early on so that out-of-line behaviors are corrected and do not become deeply ingrained in his personality matrix.

To the younger five year old the discussion need be simple. He just needs to know that he did nothing wrong that night. He needs to know that if he is confused he should come and talk to one or both of you. And again, he needs to be aware of stranger danger, or sexual predators. Not to make you paranoid, but child kidnapping/trafficking is a very real problem in this country. An ounce of protection is worth is worth a pound of cure.

I have lectured too long. Apologies for sometimes stating the obvious. Sometimes what should be obvious to people, isn't. Best of luck.

xx

Steve,

Thanks for this its a very good response as are most of the replies.

As for the "embarrassed" thing....i only have not mentioned it as i have not been here long. I don't know where my boundaries stand with the child just yet but i will certainly have a go at chatting with him after school this evening.

I also have spoken to his mother about how sensitive this is where sexuality is concerned and where it can lead to sex being a "shamefull" or "taboo" subject

I dont want this to happen as i know only too well what this can do to a young person.

Really appreciate your post it will help us alot

Thanks to everyone else who chipped in and replied. you guys really are the best

I will update in due course if i need to

Thanks again