Is it racist to have a dating preference?

[MisterMagoo]

Unless you are fetishizing someone

I'm sorry, what?

[Sylph]

I'm sorry, what?

Allow me gurl;

In this debate, finding traits of a specific race endearing, or more appropriately, Fetishistic:

Is merely when someone, for example;

White American Male, 45

"Is Seeking"

Oriental Female, 20.

*I only find cute, demure, homely Asian women with good matronly values attractive. Tired of high maintenance western women, etc...*


^- This is a clear and sadly common, type of racial fetish and whilst it's fine to have likes and dislikes and a criteria and so forth; as even the Asian woman in this scenario may in reverse endeavour this Fetish;

It becomes an issue when this sort of Fetish becomes broadened over entire races and communities.

All based on stereotypes and misconceptions.


White girls like Big Black Cocks

White Guys like Demure "Mail Order" Asians

The "Latin Guys Eat Pussy Good" thing, cause they trill their R's.


It's all mundane beliefs different races and cultures ascribe to one another.

Which is fine, especially when amongst your own, I'm sure your fellows and so, have bad talked another race in some manner or the other, usually light hearted;

"Oh! She's Spanish! Maybe she can move like Shakira!"


But the fault in this Fetishistic behaviour is that it is unhealthly broad.

And entirely misunderstood.

[princealbertofb]

Allow me gurl;

In this debate, finding traits of a specific race endearing, or more appropriately, Fetishistic:

Is merely when someone, for example;

White American Male, 45

"Is Seeking"

Oriental Female, 20.

*I only find cute, demure, homely Asian women with good matronly values attractive. Tired of high maintenance western women, etc...*


^- This is a clear and sadly common, type of racial fetish and whilst it's fine to have likes and dislikes and a criterion and so forth; as even the Asian woman in this scenario may in reverse endorse (?) embody (?) this Fetish;

It becomes an issue when this sort of Fetish becomes broadened over entire races and communities.

All based on stereotypes and misconceptions.


White girls like Big Black Cocks

White Guys like Demure "Mail Order" Asians

The "Latin Guys Eat Pussy Good" thing, cause they trill their R's.


It's all mundane beliefs different races and cultures ascribe to one or another.

Which is fine, especially when amongst your own, I'm sure your fellows and so, have bad talked another race in some manner or the other, usually light hearted;

"Oh! She's Spanish! Maybe she can move like Shakira!"


But the fault in this Fetishistic behaviour is that it is unhealthily broad.

And entirely misunderstood.

We're actually dealing with stereotypes; and I guess we all know how wrong (but also slightly true) stereotypes are. I'm French therefore I should like camembert and wine. I like neither.
[MENTION=15656]Sylph[/MENTION], what are the stereotypes that go for Bermudans, I wonder?

[Sylph]

We're actually dealing with stereotypes; and I guess we all know how wrong (but also slightly true) stereotypes are. I'm French therefore I should like camembert and wine. I like neither.
[MENTION=15656]Sylph[/MENTION], what are the stereotypes that go for Bermudans, I wonder?

Well for starters, that all foreigners type our name wrong;

BermudIan. That 'I' is very important, it helps to sing our name, without it, it sounds dreary.

Most of the islands are this way you'll notice


However, I know full well the stereotypes these fetishes are derivative from.

And my country has many, quite a few shared with the rest of the Caribbean:

Lives in Huts
Goes to the Beach everyday
Money hungry (even tho we make more than Americans)

The list goes on.

But funnily enough, we don't have any for you foreigners. We of course know of you all, but it's not in our nature to really fetish a race or person.

Perhaps individuals do here and there, but I don't know.



My experience in England only confirmed for me what my peers say about foreign people tho.

Namely that a lot of Europeans and Americans like "Exotic" or different looking or sounding people.


It's really all of no interest to me however. I hold no sway to anyone.

Tho naturally my own attracts me most, as it's what is most familiar.

[InbetweenDreams]

Tho naturally my own attracts me most, as it's what is most familiar.

That makes perfect sense...

When it comes to fetishes...that's a whole rabbit hole all on it's own. Why people are more attracted to people of different race, not another...there's no one answer...and yeah some of them probably aren't good or flat out wrong. Then again why some gay guys are into twinks, or hairy, or feet or kink are also somewhat a mystery and probably vary wildly from person to person.

[princealbertofb]

Well for starters, that all foreigners type our name wrong;

BermudIan. That 'I' is very important, it helps to sing our name, without it, it sounds dreary.

Most of the islands are this way you'll notice


However, I know full well the stereotypes these fetishes are derivative from.

And my country has many, quite a few shared with the rest of the Caribbean:

Lives in Huts
Goes to the Beach everyday
Money hungry (even tho we make more than Americans)

The list goes on.

But funnily enough, we don't have any for you foreigners. We of course know of you all, but it's not in our nature to really fetish a race or person.

Perhaps individuals do here and there, but I don't know.



My experience in England only confirmed for me what my peers say about foreign people tho.

Namely that a lot of Europeans and Americans like "Exotic" or different looking or sounding people.


It's really all of no interest to me however. I hold no sway to anyone.

Tho naturally my own attracts me most, as it's what is most familiar.

I hesitated about that 'i' I must admit. I thought Bermudian, then wondered again... I got it wrong, so I'm sorry.

[Sylph]

I hesitated about that 'i' I must admit. I thought Bermudian, then wondered again... I got it wrong, so I'm sorry.

Não faz mau garotinha! Somente uma brincadeira

No need to be sorry. The fault is not yours and you are not alone baby cakes.

I merely was poking fun, whilst of course still being educational!

Academia and all that

[NativeSon]

Disheartening maybe, but not so surprising responses to your posts, Emiliano. Absolutely on point and yet somehow mostly misinterpreted.

Or that positive stereotypes and biases cannot also be dehumanizing and damaging as well.

I don't think I fully understand this. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts.

(I think I have a good example.)

[Emiliano]

Disheartening maybe, but not so surprising responses to your posts, Emiliano. Absolutely on point and yet somehow mostly misinterpreted.



I don't think I fully understand this. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts.

(I think I have a good example.)

Thank you for actually reading what I wrote, I appreciate that. I'm curious what example you might be thinking of too.

The two immediate and most obvious examples I'd say are the model minority myth with Asian Americans and the big black cock / hyper sexualization of Black men. Both seem like positive biases / stereotypes at first, but when you look into the histories and how those stereotypes are used by, let's say "the broader culture", they are destructive and dehumanizing.

Model minority is the idea that Asians are inherently more intelligent, hard working, and content with their social treatment. That's a great stereotype right? But it's harmful in the sense that Asian Americans are not inherently smarter. But when you have teachers who believe that, it's been shown that Asian students are often overlooked in classrooms, assuming they need less help, and end up struggling as a result. It also puts pressure on Asian Americans to live up to that stereotype and make them less likely to reach out for help or support when needed. It also lumps all east Asians together. Where as Japanese, Chinese, and Korean Americans and immigrants tend to be well educated and have high paying jobs, many South East Asian and Pacific Islander Americans and immigrants are on the opposite of the spectrum.

Another aspect is how it's used in a divisive way between minority groups. Latino Americans and immigrants or black Americans are often represented in comparison to Asian Americans. That Asian Americans don't complain about racism and discrimination, and that black people should be more like that. Or that Asian immigrants are well educated and through hard work they have been able to achieve valuable roles in American society vs Latino immigrants who are lazy and want things handed to them. Asians are often seen as non threatening in contrast to other immigrant or non white groups as well. It's all bullshit, but these are the representations that are often put forward.

Another aspect is how when a group is hyper intellectualized, like all Asian men are super smart and this and that, they are at the same time desexualized. So you get the image of the weak, non aggressive, nerdy sexless Asian which is all over our mass media. Asian men rarely see themselves as the main character or as a sexual being in general. "The broader society" will accept being viewed as less intelligent than Asians, so long as they maintain their physical and sexual superiority.

The opposite of that is how black men have been hypersexualized in America - the big black cock. Again, what a great stereotype. Most black men I know tend to enjoy that stereotype at face value. But just like the hyper intellectualization of Asian men means they are desexualized, the hyper sexualization of black men leads to their de intellectualization. Black men are often representated as criminal, dangerous, unpredictable, animalistic - not very smart. "The broader society" - is willing to accept being viewed as less sexual than black men, so long as they maintain their intellectual superiority.

This hypersexualization / de intellectualization of black men is partly why unarmed black teenagers have been gunned down by police and vigilantes in recent years. Why excessive force is used that leads to their strangulation and death. Because the cultural narrative of blackness, especially young, virile, male blackness in this country is that of a threat, of criminality. It's a very long standing stereotype in this country that goes back to slavery, when black men where not only used for physical power, but also as breeding stick to produce more slaves. But it has many more modern examples as well - take the lynching of Emmett Till for example, which has recently been in the news now that the white woman who accused him of whistling at her has since come out that it was a lie. But that 14 year old child's sexuality was seen as such a threat to the purity of a white woman that even the idea of him flirting with her, led to his brutal murder.

You get where I'm going with this? And all of this is to completely ignore the way in which black women and Asian women are often stereotyped, though I'd say the way that black women are viewed tends to be far more in the negative than the positive. But to make it really gay, think about porn and how gay Asian men and gay black men are most typically portrayed. We live in a visual culture and it's absurd to me that some people think that they are so socially aware and self reflective that these bombardments of the same sorts of images and representations don't effect them. Of course they do, we all absorb that shit. And it effects how we perceive ourselves and others. To make ourselves aware of it at least though, that's better than nothing.

If I didn't explain that very well, because I have a lot of other shit on my mind tonight, you could do some further reading that might sum it up a little more eloquently:

Model minority:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/201...oogle.com/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatla...le/485492/

https://www.education.com/reference/arti...-students/

Big Black Cock:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016....html?_r=0

https://www.google.com/amp/www.inquiries...-and-power

And a good book I'd also suggest:

(The NYTimes book review)
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/bo...parts.html



Or of course you could wait for a white member to come and correct me on all this, explain how it really is and what is or isn't real racism, and then accuse me of being racist for daring to have a non white perspective on all this and having the audacity to suggest that racism is a larger issue than just kkk lynch mobs, and probably you too for showing even the slightest interest in it.

Ya know.

[InbetweenDreams]

Or of course you could wait for a white member to come and correct me on all this, explain how it really is and what is or isn't real racism, and then accuse me of being racist for daring to have a non white perspective on all this and having the audacity to suggest that racism is a larger issue than just kkk lynch mobs, and probably you too for showing even the slightest interest in it.

Ya know.

I have my big red marker ready.

Sorry for flipping out but it did seem at the time your post was targeting me personally...and I still feel that it kind of did.

I don't understand how it cannot be related to race to either fetishize or dismiss another based exclusively on their racial identity and our own perceptions of that identity. It makes no sense to me that someone could say, to use your example, "yeah I'm not attracted to black men, but it has nothing to do with race or how I perceive black men."

People stick to what their familiar with. There's a non racist reason.

Just like how I don't understand how some people have this idea that racism is only real when expressed or displayed through violent, overt behaviors. Or that positive stereotypes and biases cannot also be dehumanizing and damaging as well. I also find it hard to understand that the fear of being called or perceived as racist seems to be a bigger, more offensive issue to many people than racism itself.

Stereotypes are stereotypes, the problem is ignorange and sometimes down right stupidity. Like assuming Asian kids are automatically good at Math and that black kid running down the street just robbed a gas station.

Why do the stereotypes exist today?

But again, when a person lives in a homogeneous area or is a part of the racial majority, they dont have to think about race. They don't have to develop a racial identity, they aren't reminded of their race. They are just normal or plain, the default. And when people don't full grasp the issues and influences of race, they tend to have a lot of confusing views on it.

Fair enough. Yeah I don't have to deal with race. I rare see anyone of color... If anything I see more Cherokee Indian.

I guess in my confused views I just see the solution being simple. Treat people the way you would treat anyone else. I think that's a good start to ending racism. However, that's not good enough is it?

Like I said, we all have preferences and biases. But there's a way and a reason that those preferences and biases develop. And I don't think reflecting on that and being aware of it is a lot to do or ask of eachother to do.

Maybe we are born gay, but I don't believe we are born gay for 6ft tall - 6.3 foot tall blonde haired, green eyed men with a short to medium length beard and who has a few tasteful tattoos, who speaks three languages, works in advertising, wears stylish clothing and has a trendy haircut and can trace his ancestry back to Gothenburg, Sweden.

Why are we attracted to what we're attracted to? Why do I like guys who have black hair? Or smile a certain way? We're attracted to what we're attracted to.


Now, I'm convinced you had directed that post at me... That I apparently have all these problems. The thing I notice about you is everything seems to be racially motivated... Perhaps from your POV that is very much true and unfortunate. Funny how the south gets the stereotype of being a bunch of dumb white racists when I see less of it here....not that there aren't intolerant people here. I mean being gay in this area and looking the part definitely makes you a target.

The two immediate and most obvious examples I'd say are the model minority myth with Asian Americans and the big black cock / hyper sexualization of Black men. Both seem like positive biases / stereotypes at first, but when you look into the histories and how those stereotypes are used by, let's say "the broader culture", they are destructive and dehumanizing.

Model minority is the idea that Asians are inherently more intelligent, hard working, and content with their social treatment. That's a great stereotype right? But it's harmful in the sense that Asian Americans are not inherently smarter. But when you have teachers who believe that, it's been shown that Asian students are often overlooked in classrooms, assuming they need less help, and end up struggling as a result. It also puts pressure on Asian Americans to live up to that stereotype and make them less likely to reach out for help or support when needed. It also lumps all east Asians together. Where as Japanese, Chinese, and Korean Americans and immigrants tend to be well educated and have high paying jobs, many South East Asian and Pacific Islander Americans and immigrants are on the opposite of the spectrum.

Another aspect is how it's used in a divisive way between minority groups. Latino Americans and immigrants or black Americans are often represented in comparison to Asian Americans. That Asian Americans don't complain about racism and discrimination, and that black people should be more like that. Or that Asian immigrants are well educated and through hard work they have been able to achieve valuable roles in American society vs Latino immigrants who are lazy and want things handed to them. Asians are often seen as non threatening in contrast to other immigrant or non white groups as well. It's all bullshit, but these are the representations that are often put forward.

Another aspect is how when a group is hyper intellectualized, like all Asian men are super smart and this and that, they are at the same time desexualized. So you get the image of the weak, non aggressive, nerdy sexless Asian which is all over our mass media. Asian men rarely see themselves as the main character or as a sexual being in general. "The broader society" will accept being viewed as less intelligent than Asians, so long as they maintain their physical and sexual superiority.

The opposite of that is how black men have been hypersexualized in America - the big black cock. Again, what a great stereotype. Most black men I know tend to enjoy that stereotype at face value. But just like the hyper intellectualization of Asian men means they are desexualized, the hyper sexualization of black men leads to their de intellectualization. Black men are often representated as criminal, dangerous, unpredictable, animalistic - not very smart. "The broader society" - is willing to accept being viewed as less sexual than black men, so long as they maintain their intellectual superiority.

This hypersexualization / de intellectualization of black men is partly why unarmed black teenagers have been gunned down by police and vigilantes in recent years. Why excessive force is used that leads to their strangulation and death. Because the cultural narrative of blackness, especially young, virile, male blackness in this country is that of a threat, of criminality. It's a very long standing stereotype in this country that goes back to slavery, when black men where not only used for physical power, but also as breeding stick to produce more slaves. But it has many more modern examples as well - take the lynching of Emmett Till for example, which has recently been in the news now that the white woman who accused him of whistling at her has since come out that it was a lie. But that 14 year old child's sexuality was seen as such a threat to the purity of a white woman that even the idea of him flirting with her, led to his brutal murder.

You get where I'm going with this? And all of this is to completely ignore the way in which black women and Asian women are often stereotyped, though I'd say the way that black women are viewed tends to be far more in the negative than the positive. But to make it really gay, think about porn and how gay Asian men and gay black men are most typically portrayed. We live in a visual culture and it's absurd to me that some people think that they are so socially aware and self reflective that these bombardments of the same sorts of images and representations don't effect them. Of course they do, we all absorb that shit. And it effects how we perceive ourselves and others. To make ourselves aware of it at least though, that's better than nothing.

If I didn't explain that very well, because I have a lot of other shit on my mind tonight, you could do some further reading that might sum it up a little more eloquently:

Model minority:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/201...oogle.com/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatla...le/485492/

https://www.education.com/reference/arti...-students/

Big Black Cock:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016....html?_r=0

https://www.google.com/amp/www.inquiries...-and-power

And a good book I'd also suggest:

(The NYTimes book review)
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/bo...parts.html

I think we can agree that ignorance is the only reason these stereotypes continue to exist... along with stupidity. I mean if you're a teacher and you think your 2nd grade Asian student knows calculus then you probably shouldn't be teaching. The point is the teacher should have got the education to know better than to think that. Same with big black dicks...or that Asians have tiny dicks.



What I am curious is what is your definition of racism exactly. Not suggesting that anyone's thoughts or definition is right or wrong, mostly out of curiosity.