To the Atheists w/ a Religious Past : That Nostalgic Feeling

[InbetweenDreams]

@calgor Yes, I forgot to point those people out. There's a increasing number of racists who associate themselves with the Norse Pagan tradition, Odinists more specifically, who use the Valknut as white supremacist symbol, indicating they're willing to "die in battle." You probably seen the valknut being discussed on the events on Jan 6th. So yeah hate, stupidity and so forth exists under every religion. Anyone who weaponizes their religion in my opinion is a scumbag and other expletives that would be frowned upon their use on the forum.

Now, all that aside. I do find it interesting to dive into why people are they way they are, why they believe in what they believe and their thoughts on things like the origin of the universe, death, afterlife, birth and so on... Not that I, or anyone, truly knows the answers to any of those. I'd be concerned if someone told me they knew the truth.

[calgor]

@InbetweenDreams History tells us that those who thought they had all the answers are often proved wrong so we should all be open to new possibilities. Although it's slightly off topic, recent reports from military personnel regarding the existence of unidentified objects in space provides some new food for thought. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say when they testify before the Senate.

[Karl Rand]

@InbetweenDreams History tells us that those who thought they had all the answers are often proved wrong so we should all be open to new possibilities. Although it's slightly off topic, recent reports from military personnel regarding the existence of unidentified objects in space provides some new food for thought. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say when they testify before the Senate.

So, you imagine their testimony is going to be honest &/or complete?

[InbetweenDreams]

@Karl Rand raises a good point and beat me to it. In short, people are liars. I have an aunt who likes to make up shit like this, claim she did this, claims she knows that (and get defensive if you test her on her bold claims she can't prove). I'm not sure what you call it but there are people who are good at making up stuff so they have their 15 minutes of fame. That being said, I am sure there are people who have seen an unidentified flying object, either because they're ignorant to what it is or was knowledgeable and genuinely did not know what they say....some might have had a few magic mushrooms too.

I guess what I'm trying to say and hypothesize is that:

The majority of all UFO claims are complete fabrications...

Those that aren't are:

Those who don't know what they're looking at
Those who who might be experiencing hallucinations, lucid dreams or some sort of vision defect

From there a very small portion are valid claims...and what are those exactly? You be the judge.

[calgor]

Anyone interested can search google for "ufo 60 minutes full episode"
The consensus seems to be there is something out there we are not able to explain at this time. It could be technology owned by another country which we can't nail down or it could be something else.

[ceez]

I'm still In the process of leaving religion but it's a little difficult, I was sort of forced to join a church a friend of the family started and most of my family is apart of it. To them anyone that walks away is "turning their backs on god" and damming their soul to hell for all eternity. I'm a little dense upstairs so it took me a while to realize how much damage religion was causing me, I knew I was gay in my early teens but my family would talk about how evil and perverted gays are, perverted is their favorite way to describe us. I spent so many years of my life trying to be good by suppressing who I am, trying to be celibate or attempting to pray myself straight. I finally woke up after reading a post on reddit about a gay guy that left his church, he said something like realizing he was in an abusive relationship with the church. After that I realized the majority of "good Christians" already fit the mold, they partied when they were young, slept around, had kids and are now ready to settle down so it's so easy for them, they are sacrificing nothing. Due to the pandemic and working nights I've been able to get away from it for the moment and I feel a thousand times better.

Something I thought was interesting, a lot of people that join Satanism are actually atheist. It's so many people that were hurt by those claiming to be Christian that they wanted to join a group to oppose them. There was a story of a woman that joined a church of Satan, in her interview she said she joined a church to try out Christianity because that's what most us Americans are told to do. At the same time her son came out to her, she accepted him although a little conflicted with her new religion. Later they were invited to dinner with one of the church families and once they found out about her son they began to do the usual Bible bashing and mocking him. Later that night her son committed suicide, she said if that's God then Satan must be good.

[Karl Rand]

 - - - - - - - At the same time her son came out to her, she accepted him although a little conflicted with her new religion. Later they were invited to dinner with one of the church families and once they found out about her son they began to do the usual Bible bashing and mocking him. Later that night her son committed suicide, she said if that's God then Satan must be good.

Think I’ve related this on another thread. Apologies to anyone encountering this again. I volunteer one night a week on a gay and lesbian crisis line. In more cases than I care to remember callers from religious families, some thrown out of home for coming out to their family, some ‘disfellowshiped’ by their church have committed suicide after being forced/ blackmailed into attending residential ‘cure by prayer’ facilities. A Jehovas Witness neighbour forced her grandson into such therapy. After two weeks he phoned me confessing he couldn’t expel Satan from his life. He committed suicide that night. 
Some Chrisitisn denominations now claim to no longer subject followers to these evil practices but are continuing to do so under the cover of running drug therapy/withdrawel facilities. 
A sickening scenario made worse when we know so many priests/ ministers etc are sexual predators targetting the young.
As to Satan worship my view is Satan was a Judeo/Christian myth used to explain away God’s world being imperfect. But that’s another long theological riddle I won’t get into here. 

[Karl Rand]

My apologies for the mess I somehow made of the previous thread where it appeared ceez had written
“Think I’ve related this on another thread. Apologies to anyone encountering this again. I volunteer one night a week on a gay and lesbian crisis line. In more cases than I care to remember callers from religious families, some thrown out of home for coming out to their family, some ‘disfellowshiped’ by their church have committed suicide after being forced/ blackmailed into attending residential ‘cure by prayer’ facilities. A Jehovas Witness neighbour forced her grandson into such therapy. After two weeks he phoned me confessing he couldn’t expel Satan from his life. He committed suicide that night. 
Some Chrisitisn denominations now claim to no longer subject followers to these evil practices but are continuing to do so under the cover of running drug therapy/withdrawel facilities. 
A sickening scenario made worse when we know so many priests/ ministers etc are sexual predators targetting the young.
As to Satan worship my view is Satan was a Judeo/Christian myth used to explain away God’s world being imperfect. But that’s another long theological riddle I won’t get into here. “
When that was actually my rave.

[InbetweenDreams]

I'm still In the process of leaving religion but it's a little difficult, I was sort of forced to join a church a friend of the family started and most of my family is apart of it. To them anyone that walks away is "turning their backs on god" and damming their soul to hell for all eternity. I'm a little dense upstairs so it took me a while to realize how much damage religion was causing me, I knew I was gay in my early teens but my family would talk about how evil and perverted gays are, perverted is their favorite way to describe us. I spent so many years of my life trying to be good by suppressing who I am, trying to be celibate or attempting to pray myself straight. I finally woke up after reading a post on reddit about a gay guy that left his church, he said something like realizing he was in an abusive relationship with the church. After that I realized the majority of "good Christians" already fit the mold, they partied when they were young, slept around, had kids and are now ready to settle down so it's so easy for them, they are sacrificing nothing. Due to the pandemic and working nights I've been able to get away from it for the moment and I feel a thousand times better.

It is for the most part very real to them that "you're turning your back on God" and going to be damned for eternity, or it is real for some anyway. For the rest it is just a facade, a certain disingenuine look about their positions which is likely rooted in group mentality. You can bet the Dunning-Kruger effect is at play as most of these people have no clue what they're really talking about, just as you say they've got married, had kids and it is easy for them. What the fuck do they know what a gay person deals with or has to sacrifice? Well they don't. It is very easy to demonize something we don't know, someone who is different, or doesn't fit in. So it is far from it being just a Christians are narrow minded problem, it is very much a people problem.

At any rate I think leaving your religion is the right choice. The more people I talk to and interact with on the subject (more so recently due to the podcast and one guest I had in particular) the better understanding I have about people in general. Frankly the idea that we are going to be damned because we refuse to go to a church where the people who claim to be following a religion are weaponizing it against you and me....and all the other dumb shit they weaponize it for. I have no respect who stand behind religion to do bad things and this goes to people who practice Pagan religions as well.

Something I thought was interesting, a lot of people that join Satanism are actually atheist. It's so many people that were hurt by those claiming to be Christian that they wanted to join a group to oppose them. There was a story of a woman that joined a church of Satan, in her interview she said she joined a church to try out Christianity because that's what most us Americans are told to do. At the same time her son came out to her, she accepted him although a little conflicted with her new religion. Later they were invited to dinner with one of the church families and once they found out about her son they began to do the usual Bible bashing and mocking him. Later that night her son committed suicide, she said if that's God then Satan must be good.

That's a very sad story and I can certainly understand her wanting to do that. Shame on those people, I hope that if they have a conscience that they are miserable with guilt every day until they die.

I sometimes don't think karma exists and it is for reasons like this. These people were not held responsible, a Civil lawsuit would probably got thrown out.

That being said, I also don't think joining a Satanic church is going to be all that effective in terms of sticking to the Christians. Now, if that's the path that someone wants, great! But I wouldn't make that path due to anger and grief, but that's my opinion.

@Karl Rand That is horrifying. I honestly have no words. The fact that this continues and no of those people see the damage that is being done, what were they thinking? Were they really trying to save their grandson?

And speaking of religion and drug therapy/withdrawal, we have AA here. Courts regularly require someone to attend AA meetings which are very much about this whole "God gave me the power" eh, just fucked up. The thing is, even if laws are passed to try to prevent this stuff, it will 1. be seen as an attack of freedom of religion and 2. it will still go on. Somehow the "norm" has to be changed, and perhaps it is compared to 30 years ago but considering the bullshit that still goes on. Sometimes it feels like we're going backwards.

[Karl Rand]

It is for the most part very real to them that "you're turning your back on God" and going to be damned for eternity, or it is real for some anyway. For the rest it is just a facade, a certain disingenuine look about their positions which is likely rooted in group mentality. You can bet the Dunning-Kruger effect is at play as most of these people have no clue what they're really talking about, . . . . . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect