[Trigger Warning] Delusional Politics

[InbetweenDreams]

@Chase I think you're entitled to speaking your mind....I certainly have here in the past although not necessarily on politics though. However, the right, alt-right, etc are they not triggered? I mean that's really what it is on Fox News and how people have reacted to the protest that is taking place tonight where I live. I get that some people, business owners are genuinely concerned about a bad actor or something happening. There's just so much misinformation for one and people almost want to be up in arms about something. Of course I feel a lot of this overreaction is mostly latent racism.

That being said, most of those who are high up in politics do incur a lot of spending and waste and being a president it costs way more over the secret service, air force one...Trump is certainly no exception. Even with all the golfing and wastefulness of Trump and his cronies aside, what's he's doing and attempting to do is downright scary, trying to adjourn congress, having the military police shoot at peaceful protesters he can get a photo op, mishandling of the pandemic when he knew long in advance, lewd, lies about everything and anything... I mean I get that politicians are often full of shit but he is practically insane.

[CarGuy65]

Sorry if this triggers anyone but........ I have left many clubs and groups because politics were brought into them. My personal opinion is.....This is a forum to unite people with a commonality to discuss topics related to who we are and how to improve ourselves. I don't think bringing politics to this forum will have any benefit and may cause people to leave if it gets too out of hand. Can we keep the politics limited to just this thread please? I have seen some bad things happen when politics are brought into a forum, group, or club and Andy has worked too hard to get this forum up and running again to loose any one member. Thank you Andy for all your hard work!! Just my .02 cents worth and I will now step down off my soapbox!

[InbetweenDreams]

@CarGuy65 The real problem with things like politics and religion is people aren't respectful of other people's views on things and sometimes views on things can trigger people while some things can be quite harmful. I do think @andy has the right to decide what topics are not suitable for discussion on GS. I will point out that this thread is actually in the politics forum where there are many other threads dealing with politics. Same goes for religion, philosophy, psychology and so on.

That being said, I did add "Trigger Warning" to the thread as the subject matter I felt could trigger people. Folks aren't obligated to read what I or someone else post if the subject matter isn't something that interests them. I will also say yes, some folks did leave over politics around the 2016 election and I get it, there's a lot of things people have opinions about and feel strongly about. People also don't like being told that their political views are wrong, whatever they may be.

I think this is an open forum where we can discuss whatever topics we want and I think it would be sad if we're told we're not allow to talk about certain things. I also think we all can be adults and try to be respectful of one another. Does that always happen, no...we're all human.

If politics isn't your cup of tea, just avoid the threads and forums, there's plenty of other things to talk about on GS than the current events which are almost always political in some fashion. New threads on different subjects is always good. That being said, heated discussions aren't always political, people who anonymously posted about cheating on their partners is certainly something that can trigger people.

Frankly if we have to resort to censorship on GS then I don't think we've won. I have had plenty of people call me out on things in the past, maybe they were right in doing so, maybe not. I'm for open discussion on any topic and being respectful and if people can't be respectful and start flaming each other then that's what moderation is for.

[marshlander]

Each to their own, but I am chilled to the bone if I feel I am being manipulated into acquiescing to someone's wish not to discuss a given topic. Most of the active threads on GaySpeak appear to be variations on games of some kind. I am not here for them and I don't usually participate - my choice. Similarly I don't go to Pride events for the party. I go to recognise what we have achieved through the struggle and passion of those who went before and to express a voice for those who have no voice in many parts of the world. I march to show that I am here and will not hide away in shame ever again. There is a political dimension to a lot of my life and I rejoice that some of the injustices that I have campaigned against (including giving presentations in committee in our parliament) have been recognised and have been put right. Nothing, though, is permanent. Vigilance is required at all times. We could just as easily lose whatever we've achieved. When we won the right to marry in 2015 members of the upper and lower Houses of Parliament came outside to meet us on the street and to tell us to make more noise because members inside the House, who were still undecided about how to vote, were listening and could only hear the Christians singing their hymns and praying to their god that the Bill would fall and that we would not be allowed to marry. That is how fragile some issues are.

What I witness in both the USA and the UK is a frightening degree of gaslighting, outright lying and the undoing of a lot of good that has been hard won over decades. As a former trade unionist in education (nb trade unions in the UK are very different in form and function from those in the USA - but that's a different discussion for another time maybe) I have fought and campaigned for workers' rights over decades. I've seen the weapons used by the other side. Control begins with harmless sounding platitudes not to rock the boat. After a while they become a gospel. Eventually, and with the collusion of the engines of state, the media and monied interests, the mob (not The Mob) rules.

This is a "politics/activism" thread. If anyone is not interested in issues or discussion please move on because there's probably not much of interest. Had some of the above comments for moderation regarding political or religious diversions been written on one of the word game threads I could have understood it, although I probably would not have seen it. I am very sad, and even a little disturbed, that @InbetweenDreams felt the need to preface his comments with his "trigger" warning. It should not have been necessary. Sometimes discussion and the negotiation of ideas has to be robust.

Meanwhile back on topic (bear with me, I'm getting there!) I am today incensed to discover that our lunatic, self-serving U.K. government has approved measures to change the law in order to lower safety standards for our food allowing the UK to import cheaply from anywhere in the world, regardless of their standards of hygiene, welfare and associated practices. I live in the middle of the most agriculturally productive region of the UK and yet my MP, along with the two neighbouring Members of Parliament, has pushed through these changes that now threaten the livelihood of the farmers who put him in post. Betrayed doesn't begin to express my feelings. I have children living in the USA. One, like me, can be an awkward buggar, but he is married to a woman who comes from a long line of Mormons who would happily have seen Romney in the White House. I am shocked, delighted and so proud at the public stand she has taken against Trump. Anything seems possible after that kind of a conversion.

[InbetweenDreams]

I totally get what he's getting at. We had a lot of threads back in 2016-2017 that really got out of hand and people got angry and said they're not coming back and often it is someone we all connect with. Unfortunately, not everyone reacts to things favorably. I will say that most people on GS are probably on the left side of the political spectrum. While we on the left may not see how on God's green Earth can someone possibly like anything that Trump has said or done. We should be ginger when discussing differences of opinion. There is also a difference in discussing politics versus someone who is being a troll and the difference should be obvious.

Also about Romney, he was the only republican to vote to convict Trump...the only one.

But getting back to the whole trigger warning thing. I thought it was necessary so people who are easily triggered by such discussions can move on, probably a moot point since curiosity often wins and perhaps more people are willing to look at the thread. Perhaps it was inappropriate.

It is unfortunate that the UK is choosing to hurt its agricultural industry, I suppose it is no different than some of the things that's gone on in the US. Often I hear of some food additive that gets banned in the EU but is perfectly legal in the US and the FDA claims the additive is safe. Sometimes it is the opposite... Johnson & Johnson have been sued like mad over talcum powder causing cancer in the US, but it didn't stop them from selling it, knowing it causes cancer in other countries.

[marshlander]

I can't remember if I was on here in 2016-17. I have seen some pretty explosive flame wars on discussion forums though. I have also left a forum when it no longer serves a purpose or when life becomes too stressful being a part of one. Most things have a life span and very little is actually truly permanent. One of the things that I have found interesting on this return is that the balance of members has changed massively since I was last active. It was once predominantly populated by people from the UK although we had members from other parts of the world too - I particularly remember some Asian and South African members, oh and the lovely Sudanese, not to mention Joseph from whom I learned so much. Now, somehow, there seems to be a lot more people from the USA than I remember seeing before. @eastofeden will let me know whether I'm remembering properly.

That's not meant to be presented as though it is a problem for me. It is what it is (although I'm intrigued as to whether there was a single event or just natural growth that attracted so many from the USA!). I just need to remain aware that despite appearing to share a language we have a lot of linguistic, cultural and institutional differences, so I try not to take it for granted that everyone will understand what I'm talking about. The converse of this is that I have to try to avoid jumping to conclusions when I read what someone else is saying. I've become aware of this because in the USA currently I have two children (one on the East coast, one in Colorado), a brother (no idea where he is these days ... possibly somewhere in Texas although he spent twenty or thirty years in California, Oregon and Washington), cousins (some native born and at least one born in London and married to a man from Brooklyn) and a number of friends dotted all over.

The point I'm trying to get to is that there is a natural dynamic to defend what we know and understand. The worst thing I saw in terms of an instant disagreement was being in a Yahoo chat with my brother one night (in the days when we were still on talking terms!) in one window and with PA in another window. I thought they would like to "meet" each other. They agreed, but within ninety seconds my computer nearly went up in flames! I guess the differences between the left in France and the right in the USA are possibly even more pronounced. It didn't need to evolve that way, but that it was pretty awkward is what one might call British understatement.

@InbetweenDreams I can't say that your warning was "inappropriate", that's your call to make. I'm just sorry that you felt you needed to make it. Facebook is notorious for flame wars and for trolling. I am regularly trolled by three people I thought were friends, but I do try to enter into discussion if someone has something interesting to say, even if we are in very different places politically. If the discussion is going nowhere it is easy enough to disengage and on occasion, when I have seen people being hurt, I have simply deleted the thread. I don't need to argue for the sake of it. Life is too short. However, I can learn new things and I do like to take another person's point of view into consideration if they can actually articulate convincingly. I have occasionally had my preconceptions modified in the light of a new perspective or we may agree to disagree and leave it at that. It should be perfectly possible to determine when no further benefit accrues from hammering home what has already been stated. After all, there aren't prizes for winning the arguments on here ... unless Andy has configured the matrix to award them somehow!! Despite the petulant children who appear to be in charge of our countries at the moment we ought to be able to discuss things like adults.

[Emiliano]

I know personally, I have changed a lot since 2016. Pff, I've changed a lot since March... 

But, I don't feel the need any more to speak my opinion on every political topic or get into heated debates with people who see it differently. I know I used to do that a lot. But I'm far less aggressive than I used to be. It's not that I've become apathetic or anything... I just don't think it helps anyone. Call it maturity, or call it exhaustion, I'm just not to going to get into fights with people on the internet anymore. I'd rather cultivate more positive interactions. I'm always happy to learn though, and to share what I think for people who want to hear it. I still really enjoy learning about people and their perspectives. It's an ongoing goal of mine to work on being a more positive person, and work on bringing more positive people into my life.

With that in mind though, I feel I'd be doing a disservice if I didn't offer a gentle reminder that for some people, discussing "topics related to who we are" is inseparable from politics, and we don't really live in a society where we can decide when we want to think about those things vs when we don't, because they have a direct effect on the lives and well-being of our communities, families, and selves. But I say that with an open heart, not to attack anyone who maybe lives differently and is able to separate who they are from what happens politically.  

@CarGuy65 can I point you to the direction of Stud of the Day? Its always been my favorite thread on here and definitely needs more daily posts. Politics free, just studs, lol.

[eastofeden]

@"marshlander"

It is true - many years ago there were mostly UK/EU and at times Aussie/South African members more than USA. 

I have to say I haven't really noticed this time around where too many people are from though I am delighted to see so many of the familiar UK names. I have checked myself now to avoid anything I know will give me a trigger because life really is too short and choosing your battles carefully becomes more essential than a luxury as time marches on. I have had to kick my own ass so many times - on FB I am strictly vanilla and never comment at all on politics or religion but sometimes I have to bite my tongue and walk away still. I figure people who know me know what I think already so I leave it at that. I think I might make one post a month and it is usually to share a dog photo or some really cool landscape or architecture.

I have pretty much given up most message forums except for one I still post on and now this. In the 3-D world I even try to put a cork in it but I never really think about my words before they come out of my mouth and I hear them when whoever I am talking to hears them and it is much more difficult to keep the words from leaving my mouth LOL - some people call it "thinking aloud" and it is very generous and kind of them - the truth is I blurt things - kinda like the kid in the Emperor with no clothes. 

Message boards are nice because when/if I do blurt things there is always the back button

I do think that it is wise to leave the politics in the politics section but once that happens it is an enter at your own risk thing and also easy enough to not enter as well. I notice other boards that I just read but never comment on have gradually done this as well due to what I am assuming are member complaints.