I agree with those who have inferred that we should live and let live. If someone is effeminate...so what. We live in a world that has expectations of men...which doesnt include them shagging each other BTW. These expectations dont generally work in gay mens favour....we need to re think them so they do. While you dont need to fancy fem guys ..let them be. Sure, mainstream media love them as clowns eg larry grayson, graham norton etc and thats crap...cos it pigeon holes all gay men. But thats the problem of the media and its approach to gay men.
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Hmm, missed this thread first time round. Interesting that there seems to be a bit of an age thing happening here too.
I'll happily talk to anyone. Their outward manner doesn't make that much of a difference to me. We all have a story to tell. I like a good storyteller.
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Hmmm this is a difficult one to answer. Generally, guys who are a bit on the camp side do not really do anything for me. This is not their fault, nor is it me being judgemental or anything like that. I totally respect anyone who is able to ooze campness and not give a shit what everyone else thinks. Not only do they not care, they are able to take insult after insult and still come out on top (so to speak). Anyone who can do that deserves my respect. I've had camp friends - and yes they are a laugh! A guy called Scott from work once came out for a drink after work with us all - he ended up in a dance off (subsequently the one from American Pie) which he went on to win along with a bottle of champers and it was bloody funny. However there were then times he would do all his *arm* and *leg* dancing up and down everyone like we were poles....... and that wasn't so nice, but as long as you told him, he would stop. That said he was a laugh. BUT they always have to be centre of attention. Now I personally HATE attention and anyone who knows me knows I'd happilly sit out back in the shadows... so hanging out with camp people is not particularly my scene purely because I hate the attention it brings.
Furthermore, their flamboyance, their over-dressing of everything and making everything out to be a huge drama pure and simply gives me one hell of a headache. After a night of being out with a camp crowd I find myself having to nurse a headache - and not in a good way after a night of drunken antics, but as a result of high pitch!
So yeah, my 'dislike' is not judgemental or homophobic in anyway, but rather a result of my own personality flaws. And I use the term 'dislike' loosely, as I do not dislike them as people - I am sure that most of them have fantastic personalities - I just find their mannerisms to be a tad annoying and the attention it brings  mile:
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im getting a bit confused as to whether we are talking about effeminate and camp men.....or shrieking obnoxious queens. I dont think they are synonymous. There are many loud obnoxious people on the planet..many of them are straight and for obvious reasons can be a pain. But i think thats a different discussion to the way that society (and some other gay men ) treat fem guys which is not on.
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I find the whole emphasis on effemininity bizarre. I consider myself to be fairly masculine, and I like masculine guys..but I really don't care how people act so long as they are respectful of other's boundaries. Sure, flaming queens can be fckn annoying, but so can overbearing men and ditzy women. So can I, I'm sure. Sometimes I think that effeminate men are an object of derision purely because they're men displaying the traits of women. Those feminists go on about misogyny and the like, maybe it's crossed over into the gay world, maybe we're not all that much better than the straight guys?
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HopSkipJump Wrote:I find the whole emphasis on effemininity bizarre. I consider myself to be fairly masculine, and I like masculine guys..but I really don't care how people act so long as they are respectful of other's boundaries. Sure, flaming queens can be fckn annoying, but so can overbearing men and ditzy women. So can I, I'm sure. Sometimes I think that effeminate men are an object of derision purely because they're men displaying the traits of women. Those feminists go on about misogyny and the like, maybe it's crossed over into the gay world, maybe we're not all that much better than the straight guys? A number of interesting points here. Can't disagree with any of that!
Is there a fundamental part of our reasoning ability that demands that we generalise in order to categorise and therefore make sense of the world in which we live? It seems to me that problems can arise when we fail to question the assumptions which arise from those classifications.
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i was on old compton street in London once on a friday night and this anorexically thin "guy" wearing a pink tube top and neon green shorts started to prance down the street. all of my friends who know that i am gay of course looked at me to see my reaction and it was, i admit, one of disgust. it is very annoying for me to be immediately associated with that whole image and most gay men really hate people that act that way because it just exacerbates a stereotype. it is like a black person acting gangster because society expects them to...it is just wrong and if people play into it, it only makes the situation worse. just my two cents. 
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marshlander Wrote:A number of interesting points here. Can't disagree with any of that!
Is there a fundamental part of our reasoning ability that demands that we generalise in order to categorise and therefore make sense of the world in which we live? It seems to me that problems can arise when we fail to question the assumptions which arise from those classifications. I suppose we need to generalise otherwise we'd spend all our time differentiating and focussing upon intricate differences. It's like a shortcut in our cognitive processes. We develop schemas (frameworks) which greatly influence how we think and perceive. I know that one cat is not exactly the same as another, but I can (safely) assume that it will have a tail, even though I can't see it. Indeed, I might even assume to the point where my perception of the cat in question is flawed, I won't notice that it's actually missing its tail. Perception is a funny thing and it's surprising just how biased and subjective it actually is! Anyway..back on track.
Gay men that primp and prance - okay so they're not everyone's favourite, but as a community we should at least try to be tolerant and respectful of diversity. After all, there are many who would say that what we do is wrong, regardless of whether we wear pink or not. That unrealistic moral interjection aside, I'm not so sure that they're 'playing up' to the stereotype. I think that some people are naturally genderbenders in that they don't easilly identify with either male or female. It's not so much 'gay', even though we've lumped us all in together with that term, it's sorta more 'queer'. Queer in that they're not only out of da box with sexuality, but with gender as well. As to the difference between gender and sexuality..well..that's a whole different theoretical quagmire.
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swim73088 Wrote:i was on old compton street in London once on a friday night and this anorexically thin "guy" wearing a pink tube top and neon green shorts started to prance down the street. all of my friends who know that i am gay of course looked at me to see my reaction and it was, i admit, one of disgust. it is very annoying for me to be immediately associated with that whole image and most gay men really hate people that act that way because it just exacerbates a stereotype. it is like a black person acting gangster because society expects them to...it is just wrong and if people play into it, it only makes the situation worse. just my two cents. Not sure why your friends looked at you...My friends, family dont associate me with every flambouyant gay man. I can see that you may have been annoyed by this association but thats a matter for you and your friends.
If this "guy" (as you put it ) was just being himself and not being obnoxious then i cant see the problem. Gay stereotypes are not promoted by gay men...often straight society likes the graham norton type because he's non threatening and makes fun of his sexuality ( and they can join in the giggling)....A masculine gay man who likes a good fuck...now thats threatening.
But fem guys who are out and proud deserve respect certainly not "disgust".
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Is it just me or has ther been no arguement for the other side...?
Lol. I mean I'm not really effeminate but I'm not very masculine either, if you know what I mean...
But I don't really see what the problem is to be honest, because although I have to admit I don't exactly LOVE!!! effeminate guys theres nothing really wrogn with them. I mean their like the tomboys of the gay world... except they're the opposite...
I mean you get some guys who are straight and act effeminate at the same, I don't think it's just cause they're gay - it's just how people associate it. I mean I know this really fit guy in my math class with long-ish hair, who's really thin and wears like a pink belt, pink shoes and a pink vest and told me he wears eyeliner sometimes. I just assumed he was gay so I asked him out...
Embarassing...
So yeah, that's my point of view lol. :tongue:
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