Relationship (and sex) with a transman

[mrk2010]

I hope I can get an honest opinion here. I hear that the gay community and transgendered community tend to despise each other due to their different understanding of sexual orientation and gender identity.

If you meet a good-hearted, attractive, manly man, do you think you can pursue a relationship with him provided that he is completely honest to you about his genetic sex from the very beginning?

I know that many men can get over the fact that their potential partners used to be women, but what about after that? Do you think you can get laid with your man knowing that he physically doesn't have what biological men do?

I wouldn't say the gay community and the transgendered community despise each other but as of late I have picked up a bit of indifference. I had lunch one day with a gay friend and we had quite a conversation about transgendered individuals and how they are part of the gay community. He basically said well being transgendered isn't to do with orientation It's about your gender identity, therefore if you have a straight transgendered individual they are straight and same for gay, therefore the gay individual is part of the LGBT. It was quite a debate we were having and I think it ended up in him saying "I'm not bothered about transgendered people, its a different kettle of fish to being gay" hence the indifference stated previously.

Personally I don't think I would pursue a relationship with a transgendered man. Even more so if he did not tell me he was once a woman, but I still would not pursue a relationship, I could Still have them as a friend though. Although I would respect their right to live as male in terms of pursue a relationship I would not be able to see them as male physically as harsh as it sounds, plus technically they still would be genetically female. I don't know it's such a hard thing to say. But in my case I would have to say no. I've tried to be careful and write this as sensitively as I can, I hope this is a balanced view to think.

[pisceskhminh]

I wouldn't say the gay community and the transgendered community despise each other but as of late I have picked up a bit of indifference. I had lunch one day with a gay friend and we had quite a conversation about transgendered individuals and how they are part of the gay community. He basically said well being transgendered isn't to do with orientation It's about your gender identity, therefore if you have a straight transgendered individual they are straight and same for gay, therefore the gay individual is part of the LGBT. It was quite a debate we were having and I think it ended up in him saying "I'm not bothered about transgendered people, its a different kettle of fish to being gay" hence the indifference stated previously.

Personally I don't think I would pursue a relationship with a transgendered man. Even more so if he did not tell me he was once a woman, but I still would not pursue a relationship, I could Still have them as a friend though. Although I would respect their right to live as male in terms of pursue a relationship I would not be able to see them as male physically as harsh as it sounds, plus technically they still would be genetically female. I don't know it's such a hard thing to say. But in my case I would have to say no. I've tried to be careful and write this as sensitively as I can, I hope this is a balanced view to think.

You're honest with your thoughts. That's great. I won't deny that I will feel hurt if people tell me upfront that they can't be close to me because I'm gay. However, it is still much better than they are nice to me and then stab me behind my back.

I remember a saying from character Melanie in TV series "Queer as folks". She said, "There are two types of people: the one that hates you in front of your face and the one that hates you behind your back". Obviously the later is much more dangerous.

I hope you don't mind me asking you this question. When the word "man" pops up, what do you think in your mind? What images do you think about?

I ask this question because obviously unless a man is effeminate, I won't be able to tell if he's a biological female. I see some pictures of female bodybuilders. No matter how muscular they are, I still see them as females.

The case of Balian Buschbaum is completely opposite. He is a biological female, but the male essence in him is so strong that I'm completely convinced he's a man in totality. Well, I actually don't have to be convinced to see that. I instantly see him as a man the moment I see his pictures.

I don't know why, but I guess it is because I was born in a culture that is not as sexualized as American culture. Or maybe I have never been in a relationship with any man, so my perception of male/female in still in exploration.

[mrk2010]

You're honest with your thoughts. That's great. I won't deny that I will feel hurt if people tell me upfront that they can't be close to me because I'm gay. However, it is still much better than they are nice to me and then stab me behind my back.

I remember a saying from character Melanie in TV series "Queer as folks". She said, "There are two types of people: the one that hates you in front of your face and the one that hates you behind your back". Obviously the later is much more dangerous.

I hope you don't mind me asking you this question. When the word "man" pops up, what do you think in your mind? What images do you think about?

I ask this question because obviously unless a man is effeminate, I won't be able to tell if he's a biological female. I see some pictures of female bodybuilders. No matter how muscular they are, I still see them as females.

The case of Balian Buschbaum is completely opposite. He is a biological female, but the male essence in him is so strong that I'm completely convinced he's a man in totality. Well, I actually don't have to be convinced to see that. I instantly see him as a man the moment I see his pictures.

I don't know why, but I guess it is because I was born in a culture that is not as sexualized as American culture. Or maybe I have never been in a relationship with any man, so my perception of male/female in still in exploration.

When the word man comes up I immediately thinking physiologically and anatomically then I think genetically as in XY chromosome. To me that is what a male is. Also you can get effeminate makes who are biologically men, behaviour doesn't come into it. That person you talked about may have a male essence about him and if he is trans I respect that, but In my view he is genetically and to some extent biologically female. Its the scientist in me that makes me think that way, I don't intend to offend but even after a sex reassignment surgery you are still what your genetics make you, you can't change that. However anyone who wants to live their life as a man or a woman I respect, it's their choice and they are who they believe to be in their eyes.

[azulai]

Just watched this very good German film. It talks precisely about the sort of relationship you are mentioning... Good sensitive film. I recommend it.

PA, where did you find this movie?
It's not available on Netflix for me. Thanks.

I found the trailer on youtube but that's about it.

[azulai]

What a man has down there is a big deal to you, isn't it? I don't mean to be too personal asking you this. If you're not going to have anal sex with the man you like, is genital still an issue?

Like I said I'm not happy with where I am on this and maybe additional years and reading the thoughts of others that I respect might help me broaden my view. Yes, the whole package is a big deal to me. I even tried to view things from the point that there's no guarantee that a man with a penis is fully functional or will always be.

I think we all have personal turn-ons. My original answer did not just pertain to anal sex. I am visually stimulated by the male body (hair, shoulders, thighs, penis, balls and glorious ass). I am also tactilely stimulated by certain actions and psychologically simulated by certain actions. For example, the feeling/seeing/rubbing of another guy getting hard in his jeans would be something that I would not be experiencing in the scenario you originally stated* but is a powerful turn-on for ME. That's just one and not a TMI example but there are others, like frot, seeing/feeling your guy cum, etc.

*ftm, no lower surgery

There is so much to exploring a lover. Mind, heart, soul and body -- all those have to come together to spark this thing called love for me. But, encountering a vagina is not in my comfort zone. Knowing myself as I am right now, the relationship could not meet needs that I have and I wouldn't pursue it. Friendship, yes, definitely.

This is just from my perspective and I am very much wondering if it's more due to my identifying as exclusively homo.

[pisceskhminh]

When the word man comes up I immediately thinking physiologically and anatomically then I think genetically as in XY chromosome. To me that is what a male is. Also you can get effeminate makes who are biologically men, behaviour doesn't come into it. That person you talked about may have a male essence about him and if he is trans I respect that, but In my view he is genetically and to some extent biologically female. Its the scientist in me that makes me think that way, I don't intend to offend but even after a sex reassignment surgery you are still what your genetics make you, you can't change that. However anyone who wants to live their life as a man or a woman I respect, it's their choice and they are who they believe to be in their eyes.

Of course you don't offend me or other people. And what you say actually makes sense. Socially, a transman is a real man, but he's biologically a female. As long as people see them as men, they should be proud of themselves.

Back to what you say, what do you think about men who have surgery to change their genitals? I mean they are biological males; they are happy with their male appearance; they are masculine. Everything about them is male except that they are psychologically dysphoric with their penis, and they desire to make it look different: either cut it or invert it. But they don't want to become women. And let's say that they are good-hearted people and also honest with you about their status. Do you think you can develop a romantic relationship with them?

i know this question is really strange. If I didn't read about Josef Kirchner, a gay man who has bottom surgery and stays a man, I wouldn't know such people exist. Realjock site has a thread talking about this too.

[mrk2010]

Of course you don't offend me or other people. And what you say actually makes sense. Socially, a transman is a real man, but he's biologically a female. As long as people see them as men, they should be proud of themselves.

Back to what you say, what do you think about men who have surgery to change their genitals? I mean they are biological males; they are happy with their male appearance; they are masculine. Everything about them is male except that they are psychologically dysphoric with their penis, and they desire to make it look different: either cut it or invert it. But they don't want to become women. And let's say that they are good-hearted people and also honest with you about their status. Do you think you can develop a romantic relationship with them?

i know this question is really strange. If I didn't read about Josef Kirchner, a gay man who has bottom surgery and stays a man, I wouldn't know such people exist. Realjock site has a thread talking about this too.

Regarding after surgery, I would still say female, but a female with a phalloplasty. Even though they have still had surgery they are still the gender they were but as stated previously they can live how they want. Even if a person was honest with their status I would not and Could not develop a relationship with them. I am a man, I am attracted to person who was born male, who has a real penis and who is in all respects a male. It's just the way I and many others see it.

[pellaz]

Just watched this very good German film. It talks precisely about the sort of relationship you are mentioning... Good sensitive film. I recommend it.

i am thinking everyone has seen this movie? maybe this is what started this thread, all good. The movie is well done for the topic here.