Hello, I love Jesus

[WaltHitman]

Nice. A lot of us are Christians here Jeff, so you won't be on your own.

In my experience the LGBT community gets to meet a lot of the "dregs" the Christian movement. I wanted to get to know some of you and hopefully show that Christians aren't all terrible.

and I thought I was at the beginning of the thread - I didn't see all your posts and I'm with Corsack too. You're not really a Christian, you're a person who maybe wishes they were, but you aren't ready yet so you go around trying to compensate for that by pretending it OTHERS who don't get it or don't have it see?

and maybe you don't really wish you were? Maybe you're like so many who only say the name of "life" because it's perceieved as the "Most Powerful and Safe for You" place to spread "death" or fascism, whichever ~

[WaltHitman]

sorry came in at wrong spot

[Kiid]

ReasonableJeff has to be my favorite GS members name <3

[ronaldsbatson]

I love Jesus too.

[Pix]

Just out of curiosity, what's your thoughts on this? (Aimed at RJ, but anyone can answer.)

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles2/...uality.php

I tried looking up another lecture on Fr. Thom (Hopko) and the google suggestion gave me one on being a gay Christian. I know someone who worked closely with him (decades ago) and heard his lectures on audio (heck, one was on the original tape used to make the lecture, pre-editing) and he's a calm, reasonable (most of the time) guy with a sense of humor, and while I don't accept his lectures as true (though he makes far more sense than a great many Christians I've heard), he's someone I would welcome around me.

I'll give him points for seeing homosexuality as an orientation (though one that must be suppressed in his view, as a predisposition to wrath or gluttony would be the challenge other Christians would wrestle with).

But those are the same core Bible verses used by fundies who tried to get my partner fired and us thrown on the streets, of those who say the government is obligated to condemn (even execute) us, Westboro Baptist, and also quoted by the man who claimed membership in the Army of God (*) who recorded my girlfriend's jeep license plate and said at any time he or one of his men would execute judgment on us (death).

(* The Army of God is a US Christian terrorist organization, and interesting enough I've only heard of them going after lesbians, including bombing a lesbian club in Atlanta, rather than gay men, which is interesting to me as they normally go after clinics that perform abortions which gives even more credit to the idea that the reason these Christians hate abortion is because they wish to punish women rather than protect the unborn.)

Now Fr. Thom (Hopko) would NEVER condone violence (as far as I'd know) but there he is with that same poison. Do you agree with it?

And though he wouldn't condone violence I'm sure he condones making us 2nd class citizens, and my first really close girlfriend was Russian Orthodox who felt the need to separate herself from her family because, as kind & loving as they were, they don't accept homosexuality and see it as evil, and thus her as evil. And that's just tragic. And unnecessary as Christianity is a false religion of mostly bronze age superstition of a patriarchal, warlike people, and like many other sects, the Russian Orthodox helped facilitate horrendous tyranny (that is, it helped them get through this "veil of tears" but they cried a lot more tears than they would've because of the teachings of the church!) and I believe it helped Stalin gain such power through a mix of justified resentment against the church by many, and many more who accepted that Russia was automatically led by the one God wanted (therefore, when Stalin gained control many Russians refused to stand against them as to do so would be to stand against God).

But I digress. The question is, do you agree with Fr. Thom (and that's why you're here, to lovingly let us know we're sinners as Fr. Thom would if he were to ever come here) or do you disagree with Orthodox teaching?

[Counselor]

It is only sin if you believe it is wrong and do it anyway. Now I don't believe homosexuality is wrong, but poorly understood.

[Geminize]

Personally, I do not believe in sin. The concept of 'original sin' is repulsive to me. I am guided by a sense of morality which has nothing to do with the church, the Bible, or fear of eternal suffering. The Bible seems clear on homosexuality. When people say they are Christian and gay, I find that perplexing. Is the Bible the word of God or is it not? How can you reconcile your homosexuality with what is written in the Bible, as pointed out by Fr Thom in Pix's post? As far as I can tell, being Christian seems to be such an important part of some people's identity that they are unable to let it go. Therefore they rationalize away any part of Christian teachings and traditions which conflict with their identity and choices.

This isn't limited to Christians or homosexuals, of course. It's a basic human tendency, and difficult to recognize or accept in one's self.