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Younger with older who just came out
#1
I have been gay all my life: first sex at age 12; first older lover at 18 – lasted a few years; many short time flings (including European romances) followed, before a few years with another older lover. It’s safe to say that I’ve been "around the block," as they say. Yes, I love older men! With my hectic schedule furthering my education while managing a couple of businesses abroad, I feel ready to slow down being a playboy and have some sort of stability. I don’t think having a monogamous relationship is practical; perhaps an open relationship is more realistic.

While living in the US, I dated an older guy (24 years my senior) for six months until I had to leave out of the country. We initially met up just for sex, but our feelings developed. We lived a couple of hours from each other but would meet every 1-2 weeks or so. We liked doing things together such as hiking all day to set up a camp on top of a mountain, discussing about philosophy over our favorite beers, driving hours to see our favorite bands, tantric sex for hours, etc. The age gap was not an issue at all. It seemed like the perfect match that most people dream of, BUT with a few complications.

About three years before I met him, he had just come out of the closet after having been married for 20+ years. Because of this, he wanted to try to have sex with as many men as he could and, therefore, not yet ready to commit. Neither was I ready to commit. He told me that he needed to experience and learn what works for him. We remained "more than friends but less than boyfriends”. I was open to see other people; he was also open to do the same. This was new for me, as I would normally date one person at a time. It took some growing up on my part and I learned to manage my insecurities. He was also in therapy twice a week to help him sort out his new life of being a gay person and having had a rough childhood.

Before we met, he’s been seeing another older man regularly. He even traveled abroad with him the year before we met. He mentioned to me that they have sex together even though he is not in love with him; he was in love with me instead (supposedly). (He introduced me to the other lover once at a gala, and we were both aware that we were sleeping with the same guy!) We were very open and honest to each other that I also knew when he would hook up with other men. I also told him about my sexcapades. At times, he would express how jealous he was; other times, it would be me being jealous. Lots of discussions would follow and we would feel better once again.

Six months passed and it was time for me to leave the country to be in Europe for a year. I told him that keeping the long-distance relationship would be hard for me and that it would be best to reconnect again upon my return. I proposed that he would just explore around while I do my thing in Europe. He didn’t approve of that and would rather keep in touch everyday with the possibility of him visiting me in Europe. I agreed. We expressed how much we loved each other. He told me that he hasn’t been loved as much as I’ve loved him and that no one has told him beautiful and sweet words as much/deep as I have.

While in Europe, I kept in touch with him everyday through modern technology and would even have cyber sex. We updated each other on our separate lives including sexual experiences we had with other men. A few months settling in Europe, I felt very stressed with my new life here with some added drama with my businesses in another country. Those things added to my frustration with our relationship (mainly because I felt jealous of him spending weekends with different men), which led me to become angry towards our situation. I told him that I couldn’t continue with what we had. But he took an assignment for a week at a nearby city where I live now. He told me that the only reason he took the assignment was to be with me, even for only a few days. We made up and we were happy once again. I showed him the nightlife in Europe; we held hands while walking in the rain in some popular city; we went to bathhouses together; we spent countless hours talking and catching up; etc.

During the holidays, I went to visit my family in another country. He remained in the US, traveling both east and west coasts to see friends and family members. In some trips, his older lover went with him. This means that “the other guy” met his family members, while I only know their names and what they look like. I was beginning to see that perhaps this other older guy has more potential for a long-term relationship with him than me. So I expressed the conflict inside of me and told him that I was done with him.

Holidays passed. After arriving back to Europe, he wanted to Skype. He expressed his love for me. He also reminded me that he, too, had feelings; that dumping him a few times had been hurtful. Somehow, after discussing things, we made up… again! Nothing changed in our lives ever since then – he was still seeing the other older guy regularly while hooking up with other men when he can; I continued my life in Europe and getting laid when I have time. We would still express our love to each other with endless texts and occasional Skype.

A week ago, I just felt I have had enough. The first year anniversary of our first meeting was coming up and I just couldn’t continue any longer. I felt like shit, inadequate, and down. Eventually, I realized that I’m too good for him, dammit! I’m young, fabulous, got his shit together, smart, and all that jazz (yes, I’m just making myself feel better, so don’t rain on my parade!). So, I sent him an email to tell him to concentrate on his life in the US while I focus with mine in Europe. I told him that I’d be happy to get updates on his life now and then, and that perhaps we’d reconnect upon my return to the US in a few months. We both cried while texting each other for a couple of hours. He told me once again that no one has ever loved him as much as I have loved him. He also told me that maybe I was more mature in the gay world than he is.

I miss him terribly. I feel that I’ve lost something worth fighting for. Was I not understanding enough of his situation (being fresh out of the closet)? I just think that we were in different phases in life that we didn’t fully appreciate each other. Perhaps it wasn’t the right time? Am I being too selfish to preserve my self and sanity? Am I being realistic with the distance? Did I quit too soon?

Writing this already makes me feel much better.
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#2
I personally haven't been in an 'open' relationship. I know I am 'hardwired' for monogamy. Yeah its quaint, old fashioned - whatever name you give it. I do not view monogamy nor open relationship as being mature nor immature. They just are.

You said: It took some growing up on my part and I learned to manage my insecurities.

I have to wonder if you are not more hardwired for monogamy and mistook your needs as 'insecurities'. You know you fully, but think about that.

It is clear you know what you want, basically.

I feel ready to slow down being a playboy and have some sort of stability. I don’t think having a monogamous relationship is practical; perhaps an open relationship is more realistic.

Given your past experience here, and taking into account what I just said about insecurities, do you think that this is what you really need at this time?

You were at best disappointed that this guy took his other partner to meet his relatives, if that happens with someone else do you see it as a real security or a real disappointment to be the man left out again?

Did you do the right things? I don't know. Some yes, some others maybe not. Not understanding enough? From my view point allowing him to explore other men was a huge understanding, one I couldn't do with a lover.

I personally wouldn't try to run a relationship from two different countries. Especially if I know I'm not going to that other country any time soon. What is clear in your case is you tried it and it wasn't working for you, which is important.

I think its a bit selfish of him to run so many partners and expect you to stick around and waiting until he shows up. But in all honesty, I think he is a 40 year old man trying to relive his missed 20's and play 'catch-up' which at his age he should have a little more sense. This is of course just my opinion and is not based on solid facts, its just how I personally feel.

If you truly feel the situation is untenable, then yes, end it and move on. Yes its going to hurt, yes there will be doubts. It comes with the territory. Clearly you still care about him, but the realities of the situation and your own personal needs should not be thrown away because you care about him.

Besides, it sounds to me he is quite happy with his life and what is closer to him.
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#3
^^ What Bowyn says ^^
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#4
Thanks Bowyn and Lalo! Clearly, it wasn't working for me, so I ended it. I can't say that I didn't try, 'cause I did, many times. I just can't be bothered feeling uneasy any more. I see your point about my "needs" that I may have mistakenly considered as "insecurities". He was an important part of my life, but I didn't feel that I, too, was as important to his life. My self-esteem was definitely threatened as if he said something like, "You're great, but hang on and let me see if there are better men out there." Of course, he didn't actually say that, but it felt like that. Certainly, we can't lose something that we never had, but I feel like I've lost a huge part of me. But I'm glad for the experience. Thanks again! Cameron x
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#5
I just read your thread and I am madly in love with you. Come save me from death and boredom. I will be a nice old geezer guy for you. I will pretend to be polite and love you to death. Probably in less than a year at my age.

Whoever gets you should consider himself Lucky. I am a fan of yours, that is for sure. Blackbat
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#6
What a lovely and sincere post from the OP, and people say romance is dead.
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#7
Heres my "two cents" worth....


You have had your fun, you seem to want to settle down to one life, one person, one home. Even though you travel for your job, you seem to be wanting stability in a bad way.

Your friend is "new to the scene" as it were. He is apparently wanting what you have already done in your life so far. This does not sit well with you.

He finds you very stimulating, probably because you are younger (which probably makes him feel younger), and have many common interests. You seem to find him stimulating because you know he has the ability to have a stable life (since he had a married one for many years), and the fact that you both have so many things in common makes the relationship difficult.

Here is my psychological "take" on this situation....

Your friend has found someone who can understand what his wants are better than you can, simply due to the fact of culture clash. He is from one era, you are from another. This is why you are jealous. If the other guy was just another "on again, off again" boyfriend, you wouldn’t have these feelings. But because he seems to share more of his personal life with this other man, you feel like you've been kicked in the stomach.

You've shown him you are unstable as far as relationships go, because of you breaking up, then making up with him a few times. Your friend is used to stability, he doesn’t comprehend what you are doing. To him, you are just flighty. Flighty people dont make good stable relationships. So, he's got him another man he CAN have a stable relationship with. Regardless of what your friend says, he IS looking for a stable relationship of some kind.

People who have come out of long relationships have become dependant on having someone there. Whether it was a bad relationship or a good one, doesn’t matter, its that SOMEONE was always there.
Plus your friend is "over 40", and he may also feel like, if he doesnt have anyone stable in his life, he wont have anyone to love or take care of him when he is unable to do for himself anymore. This is a scary thing.

Your friend might have WANTED to play around, but his past life has set him up to only accept some kind of stable relationship. To him, you cannot give that. So, he has this other man for stability.

From what I read in your post, I would say that both of you are looking for something solid. You are both either unaware that you are both playing mind games with each other, or you are doing it to make the other jealous...as neither one of you seem to want to be the first one to say "Im ready for a commitment".

Your love seems to be based more on close friendship than anything else. But this is good. Good friends make good lovers, and good lovers make excellent partners in life.

My suggestions:

You both need to sit down, each by yourselves, and decide exactly what it is you NEED in your life. Not what you WANT, not what you want to DO, but what it is you NEED in your life. Want and need are two different things. You both seem to need each other, but something is stopping both of you from saying or doing anything about it....so you play these games with each other.

Possibly you are afraid of a committed relationship because of your past exploits with men. And possibly he is afraid of commitment with you, because of his lack of understanding your thoughts and actions.

Once you both figure out what it is you NEED in your lives, then you can go from there. Talk to each other....face to face, not on the phone or computer.

The long distance will not work either. If you both decide that a committed relationship is what you both want, then you have some big decisions to make. Where will you live? Who will move where? Apartment or house? What about the jobs?

Your first step is to let him see you are not flighty. You have to show him somehow, how stable minded you can be. Make a decision and stick with it. No more "on again, off again".....no one can trust that.


My personal suggestions:

1. Figure out what you both want. What you need in life. What kind of stability you need.
Talk with each other face to face. NO SEX, only TALKING. Make it a one day event, so after the talk both of you can go think on things. Dont give in to sex for at least 24 hours. Sex heightens emotional states, and you can do or say something wrong. Talk, think, talk on it again.

2. Stop seeing other men. Save yourselves for each other. No more "on the side" either.

3. Give it time. Date each other. REALLY date each other. Become better friends. Learn to understand each other more.



I am a monogamous person. There is something to be said for being monogamous.....loyal to the one you claim to love. Once you've developed a life together, you will see its something very wonderful.


Hope that helps.
Good luck!
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#8
Your situation sounds a lot like mine was when I met my partner. I knew I was gay young, started dating when I was 16. When I was 22 I met this guy who was 23 years older than me. He had been married to a woman for nearly 20 years and then over the course of the marriage he realized he was gay and they divorced. I met him about a year after his divorce and it was pure sex at first but after a few months it was clear our feelings had deepened. I was totally in love with him and he was with me. We worked so well together and had so much in common despite the age gap. The problem he wasn't willing to commit he was in his mid-40s and never had his 'party years.'

We tried to keep things 'casual' but every time he'd sleep with someone or I would the other would get insanely jealous. It was unhealthy, but it was like a drug I just couldn't keep away from him (it didn't help that the sex was insane haha).

After about a year of this, I was offered a job out of the country and I decided to take it. We didn't talk until about six months later I happened to come home for a visit and we arranged to meet up. What was supposed to be a three hour cup of coffee has turned into 10 years as monogamous couple.

There has been ups and down! The age difference can occasionally cause some issues but frankly every relationship has its challenges and its been worth it Smile
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