Is he? Am I? F*ck.

[rover330]

dude, when you say you're not out of the closet...

what is it you're avoiding? this is 2013

have you killed someone? have you poisoned a city's water supply?

if not, liking other guys is probably not really such a horrible thing

[Liam]

that's great, tetractys! I hope the same happens to me once I'm completely out it's good to see that life may not change much, except from the fact that you don't have to keep secret of who you really are anymore!

and rover330, it's not that easy for me. liking other guys is indeed not a big deal, but society still does not accept homossexuals well yet, so I'm afraid of what would happen, so is my mother.
I'm sure it doesn't only happen in Germany, but gay people getting beaten up show up in the news every once in a while. I know brazilian people that say it happens all the time in their country.
people just blindly follow their religion and "beat the gay out of other people". that's one of the reasons I'm an atheist, too.

[Corsac]

dude, when you say you're not out of the closet...

what is it you're avoiding? this is 2013

have you killed someone? have you poisoned a city's water supply?

if not, liking other guys is probably not really such a horrible thing

If things were so black and white there would be no such thing as "coming out". You and I may be 100% comfortable now but there are still others that struggle to let those around them know about themselves. When society stops giving a damn about what our sexualities are people like Liam will have an easier time just being themselves.

[Liam]

"I hope you stop acting like this by the time we start dating " HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO REPLY TO THIS?! WTF? I'm trying not to jump into conclusions, but does he have to text me something like this at 3AM (I just read it)? And judging by the time he texted this, he was probably drunk.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I know I need to get comfortable first, but I'm scared. I'm still trying to fit in in college, and I don't know how people would act if I told them... I haven't even told my parents about it.
The only person that knows is my friend, and she is the person I trust most. She has gay/bi friends, but she isn't really over the shock, and I've told her about it six months ago. I'm afraid that's how people will act.

You guys are out of the closet, so you know what situation I'm in.

It's Germany right? How down on the LGBT community are Germans in general?

From where I sit in the USA I hear that Germany is highly tolerant of a lot of things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Germany

Being homosexual is simply not an issue in Germany and is part of normal, everyday life in towns and cities up and down the country. Berlin, Cologne, Frankfurt, Hamburg and Munich in particular have an open and vibrant gay and lesbian scene.

Source: http://www.germany.travel/en/germany-for...bians.html

How true is that?

It's not like you live in Russia where they are cracking down on 'gay propaganda' or Africa where they are getting together death squads, or Islamic Nations where they stone you in public for being even slightly 'that way'... Its Deutschland!

And its the 21st century, its not like they are going to come and drag you into an alley and beat you with a baseball bat - something I saw happen more than once to 'queers' in my 20's - well the aftermath of such attacks....

Her shock is reasonable, especially if you are 'straight acting' and haven't let the inner queer shine through even for a momentary lapse.

What is the worst anyone can do to you? Your parents may disown you - so what? My father disowned me when I came out gay - it really wasn't MY problem - it was his (and owning to many other things in our relationship it was the best damn thing he ever did for me).

Those 'friends' you have - if they are really your friends they will stick by you and not care about who you have sex with, they love you for you - which also includes that gay part of you. If they can't handle the truth, you are better of without them.

Being out will resolve a lot of conflicts for you, being out will be like having a huge burden lifted off your shoulders. Being you and not hiding behind the 'straight mask' will make a lot of things a lot easier.

Yes, it will make a few things harder, but in the long run the good will far outweigh the bad.

Take for instance this 'problem' with this fellow. If you were out he would already know and if he was interested in you in return he would be more willing to say 'yes' knowing that you are like him.

Right now, if he is gay he is going to be far less willing to share that bit of him.

[princealbertofb]

Thanks for the reply.
I know straight men have emulated some gay behaviours, but my friends act like this with me. Bromance and stuff. Dan takes this to a whole new level...

I'm trying not to make any assumptions about this, but it's really tough. I can't get that "what if" thought out of my head.

Yeah, getting drunk was probably a horrible idea, but it's the only way I can find to get enough balls to talk about it

Liam, what is it exactly that you'd like to do with him? Kiss, hug? Full blown sex? Of course it would make sense to start with the usual, cuddling, holding hands, kissing, just getting comfortable physically, which you already seem to have to a certain extent. Maybe he is just the touchy feely type, who can do that to any sex, girls or boys, but it hardly shows a preference for one over the other. The good part is he's comfortable with you,, joking, passing his hand through your hair (that's quite intimate, but not something a friend wouldn't necessarily do). I would generally advise people not to force others to come out, but to disclose about themselves, which can be an opener. Except, you don't know for sure that you are more into gay than straight, right? Well, I would second someone's advice that it's never a good thing to do things when drunk. Try to stay sober next time. And have a proper conversation that will be more meaningful than if both of you can't remember a bloody thing.

[princealbertofb]

I know, I know...
After talking to him, I had to go to the airport because I was coming to visit my parents in Leipzig. While I was driving from Mannheim to Stuttgart and then during the flight, I was thinking about everything that has been going on, and stuff. I decided to tell my mother about this.
I told her some time after I arrived, and it went better than I could ever expect. She was crying, but she said "These are not tears of sadness. I'm just worried about what people might do to you... I just want you to be happy, no matter what". I asked her not to tell anyone about this until I was ready. I'm trying to do this one step at a time. It feels great to have someone to talk about this

That's one thing out of the way, Liam. Congratulations on doing this with your mum. She is, after all, your best ally in the world. She'll always be there for you, I'm guessing.

[princealbertofb]

"I hope you stop acting like this by the time we start dating " HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO REPLY TO THIS?! WTF? I'm trying not to jump into conclusions, but does he have to text me something like this at 3AM (I just read it)? And judging by the time he texted this, he was probably drunk.

That sounds promising, lol. But honestly, he needs to get his head out of the toilet bowl and start accepting that he likes boys, (like you! mile You are so much more level headed than he is, right now. Just text him back that you'd like to know if it's a promise or a threat? That's British humour, will he get it?

[Liam]

It's Germany right? How down on the LGBT community are Germans in general?

From where I sit in the USA I hear that Germany is highly tolerant of a lot of things.


How true is that?

It's not like you live in Russia where they are cracking down on 'gay propaganda' or Africa where they are getting together death squads, or Islamic Nations where they stone you in public for being even slightly 'that way'... Its Deutschland!

And its the 21st century, its not like they are going to come and drag you into an alley and beat you with a baseball bat - something I saw happen more than once to 'queers' in my 20's - well the aftermath of such attacks....

Her shock is reasonable, especially if you are 'straight acting' and haven't let the inner queer shine through even for a momentary lapse.

What is the worst anyone can do to you? Your parents may disown you - so what? My father disowned me when I came out gay - it really wasn't MY problem - it was his (and owning to many other things in our relationship it was the best damn thing he ever did for me).

Those 'friends' you have - if they are really your friends they will stick by you and not care about who you have sex with, they love you for you - which also includes that gay part of you. If they can't handle the truth, you are better of without them.

Being out will resolve a lot of conflicts for you, being out will be like having a huge burden lifted off your shoulders. Being you and not hiding behind the 'straight mask' will make a lot of things a lot easier.

Yes, it will make a few things harder, but in the long run the good will far outweigh the bad.

Take for instance this 'problem' with this fellow. If you were out he would already know and if he was interested in you in return he would be more willing to say 'yes' knowing that you are like him.

Right now, if he is gay he is going to be far less willing to share that bit of him.

About the LGBT community in Germany, it's quite true. People are quite ok with this, but saying that we don't have a problem at all is like saying that there aren't xenophobes around here in Europe. It's complicated, and I can't help but think about what people will think and how they will judge me.

I want to be out. I really do. I've been carrying this weight around my shoulders for a long time, and I've tried to tell my parents more than once. I've even tried to joke about it, to check how it would sound to somebody.

Let me put it this way. Like Plato's Allegory of the Cave, I see things like this: I've been chained to bissexuality since childhood, and the shadows I see are society while I'm in the closet. If I try to look outside of this cave, the light will hurt my eyes, because the truth will hurt. The world outside looks awesome and tempting, but I'm afraind of the hurting part.

Philosophy aside, I'm trying to do this. I'm taking it one step at a time, and I think that by now having two people knowing about this, and one being my mother, is a huge progress.

[Liam]

princealbertofb OMG, this is so much better than what I wrote him! hahahaha I just texted "Ok, so I'll stop acting like this by tomorrow. Sounds good to you?"