H.O.P.E (homosexuals opposed to pride extremism)

[East]

Okay i read an article, it made sense to me… I said I was going to find out more about this HOPE… I never claimed to admire an individuals, my thoughts are fiercely independent and I do not blindly follow others ideals but i can appreciate some of it.

do I believe HOPE is anti-gay… NO. Its a gay organization.

Some of the biggest homophobes on the planet are GAY ...internalized homophobia is a very real phenomenon. Can you honestly say that a gay person who endorses conversion therapy is not anti gay?

His closest confidant by his own admission was a famous anti gay pastor...

Thinking for yourself? Yeah...OK...so do I.

I think this is a case of internalized homophobia for both of you.

[Chase]

A lot of people on here are upset that all of the lgbt gets judged because of the actions of what some gays do at pride parades, that they forget that for much of history and by hundreds of millions of people today, people have and are judging gays based on the actions of IMAGINARY homosexuals - homosexuals that never even existed.

[southbiochem]

hmmm...imaginary homosexuals...

[James]

So what do you suggest, I like the Pride parade here because the minority of the lgbtq community takes part, Yes some are in your face types but more are just regular people who happen to be gay and alot of straight allies participate. As far as Stonewall survivors, not mentioning any names of who brought this up, there were Many more before that in Los Angeles and San Francisco, who fought for our rights, Jim

[dfiant1]

Speaking for myself I have always felt alienated from the 'LGBTQ Community' because I feel I have been included in my community which is so diverse it includes heterosexuals, blacks and even religious kinds and I believe that trying to seperate ourselves by creating our own community only serves to segregate ourselves. That's not good as it gives the impression of 'elitism', so if we haven't alienated ourselves enough just because of something we can't control...our sexuality...we continue to alienate ourselves by creating our own exclusive community?

I'm not a prude, but I believe sex and sexuality should not be on display in the public forum and the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardis Gras, as well as the Gold Coast Gay Day and Brisbane Pride in my own experiences have become truncated protests which are now sexualised with provocative clothing and simulated acts of sex and gay mincing and flaming (Shitting rainbows and farting glitter), and in my mind (and I am sure a lot of heterosexuals) because these parades and pride events are so public all of as gays and lesbians are judged by the behaviour of this vocal minority that is in no way even close to representative of who most gays and lesbian are.

Like I said earlier, when I came out in 2000 and still even to this day when people find out that I am gay, the response is always 'I would never have guessed, you don't act gay'. That to me is so offensive because they are expecting me to mince, be limp writed and shit rainbows and fart glitter because that is the 'image' that has been presented to them of gays and lesbians predominantly through public displays like Mardis Gras and other Pride Festivals.

If we want to be part of society, we are going to have to change our approach so we are included rather than excluded.

PS. as a footnote I would like to say that I have a strong distate for any sort of organised religion or any group that is organised to create fear...HOPE would seem to fit neatly into that category.

[East]

^^^I do understand that Daz...I have my own reasons why I won't attend. As I worked in a gay bar for 20 years...I have had my fill of being objectified and judged solely on my appearance one way or the other and it is primarily the reason I avoid it all....

My bottom line ...I believe in the principle of free speech and expression so I will defend anyone...whether I agree with them or not...to say and behave in any manner they wish as long as they do not directly harm someone else. I get crap sometimes for defending the Westboro Church and most recently on another gay board for defending the Duck Dude's right to say what he said...but it does not mean I endorse it in any way and truthfully I intensely dislike and disapprove of them both...but freedom of speech and expression is more important to me than my own personal feelings.....

These groups and individuals have taught me to be clear about my own personal struggle and the way I define it is to seek not approval nor acceptance but to always strive for equality under the law for everyone.

I think defending free speech is important as a gay man because there are many people and institutions who would like to silence us as well and when you open a Pandora's Box...attempting to censor someone else...it sets a precedent.

I think of it this way...I do not agree with or relate to a lot of straight people and their antics...Girls Gone Wild and Spring Break hardly raises an eyebrow. Wouldn't it be silly to judge all straight people by the actions of the handful of people we see behaving as they do? ...and if I chose to judge them and think they represent all straight people...that we be on me....

I also think Pride shows a lot of different aspects of our community and sometimes people just focus on the flamboyant ones. It is also wise to remember at one time we were forced into silence...and we all force fed straight lifestyles...having it rammed down our throats from the day we were born...so if they can't handle the drag queen nuns on roller skates or some of the other more colorful members of our community......that is their problem.

[dfiant1]

The problem with society, and I would say most people on forums like this, is people are going to misinterpret what has been said. I agree 100% that freedom of speech as long as that speech doesn't incite hate or pain is extremely valuable and must be defended rigourously.

BUT people are going to falsely interpret what I have said in MY OPINION about Pride as an arguement to ban pride or do away with it.

Yes the stereotypes it produces piss me off, but it isn't going to change the way I live my life, it is just going to stop me from being active in the Pride Festivals and the gay 'community' because what goes on in these elitist groups alienates me enourmously because I'm just a normal everyday average bloke that doesn't need to wear leather chaps and walk down the street with a bare arse simulating oral sex on another bloke while the bloke behind me is simulating fucking me up the arse...to me what is presented in those parades is not indicative in the slightest (Morally and realistically) of what LOVE for the same gender is about.

[East]

The problem with society, and I would say most people on forums like this, is people are going to misinterpret what has been said. I agree 100% that freedom of speech as long as that speech doesn't incite hate or pain is extremely valuable and must be defended rigourously.

BUT people are going to falsely interpret what I have said in MY OPINION about Pride as an arguement to ban pride or do away with it.

Yes the stereotypes it produces piss me off, but it isn't going to change the way I live my life, it is just going to stop me from being active in the Pride Festivals and the gay 'community' because what goes on in these elitist groups alienates me enourmously because I'm just a normal everyday average bloke that doesn't need to wear leather chaps and walk down the street with a bare arse simulating oral sex on another bloke while the bloke behind me is simulating fucking me up the arse...to me what is presented in those parades is not indicative in the slightest (Morally and realistically) of what LOVE for the same gender is about.

I have more of a problem with Hallmark and romance novels trying to define what "love" means ....

The really colorful people don't really faze me one way or the other. The people who bother me are usually the same type whether they are gay or straight...for me it is a personality type and they come in all flavors....

[Dreamer]

What started out as pride parades years and years ago, have turned into nothing more than stereotyped, pigeonholed, inflammatory, and degrading spectacles of obscenity and blatant "gimmicky advertisements".

There is NOTHING about these "parades" that have anything to do with pride, in any way, shape, or form.

I think I had my say regarding identical views shared by others on this thread, but....


To say there's "NOTHING" sentimental or productive about gay pride celebrations, events, parades etc... is looking through a very narrow lens, opposed to the whole picture.


Yes, times have changed for the better in some countries, and the symbolism and meaning of gay pride parades may not be as sacred to some people as it had been many years ago; although less in necessity, still holds that same value to many others, despite any shenanigans that may take place during them by a small minority of party-goers of which people like you prefer to magnify and whine about.


My personal experiences going to parades tell me the opposite. Sure there are the crazy antics of a small percentage of people going over the top, and enjoying themselves in ways that could offend or "embarrass" others, but there's that small percentage that exists everywhere.


To single out those "embarrassing" people, and ignore the other 95% that make up gay pride parades and festivals is unfortunate.


Just because you choose to get stuck on that tiny percentage of silliness, to overshadow something that still, till this day, is so grand for so many others on a much more deeper level: people who go there with lovers, family and friends to share the strong sense of community and love that is achieved at these events, or maybe the closeted man or women who happen to go there full of doubt and angst, only to leave having had embraced their homosexuality as something normal, finally overcoming their own inner-homophobia and actually consider loving themselves for the first time ever.... well, again, that's unfortunate that you fail to understand and accept that, yes, it still makes a difference in many people's lives.

[Dreamer]

OK, so Dreamer called me conservative....yes I am (a fierce opponent of right-wingers/religious hierarchs/bourgeois oligarchs, and other classical conservative elites, though). I don't see why does that have to be taken with a tone that says "ugh....conservative"

I also mentioned that I too am conservative (at least in respect to the way that I present myself in public).


My tone was not so much as: "ugh....conservative", as it was: "Why bother wasting my time worrying about what others might think about what other people do?", since it doesn't affect me personally.


If some homophobic says or thinks: "See, look at those filthy AIDS infected faggots spreading their filth to lure in our precious, godly children!" while observing, on Fox News, the few half-naked gay men twerking on a float.... well, that's not any of my concern. They think that of us, regardless!


Their ignorance is beneath me, and to give it any relevance or legitimacy in my life (as some prefer to do) is pointless.

He also said I should be ashamed of myself for feeling embarrasment...I cannot see why, I differ from your opinion but I'm not telling you to feel bad for having it, why should I? Slow down there, mister, not everyone thinks alike.

You can go back and read what I wrote.


I never said you, or any other person on this thread, should be ashamed for personally feeling embarrassed as gay men for the crazy party antics acted out by a tiny few others at gay pride parades.


What I did imply (while replying to a post by the lovely trialbyerror) was that there was no reason to feel shame or embarrassment for what others do at those events, and that i did not personally find any value in wasting my time doing so.