Abandoning your family

[Anonymous]

East:

Thnks for your reply

Hmm yup my parents are quite similar too...

When i was young , they would never let me go to my friends' houses or attend their birthday parties. they never let me socialize with people when young. i remember my relatives had a sleepover for my cousin once. i went there in the afternoon and was playing with my cousins. i remember they painstakingly came all the way at night and brought me back home. they were too overprotective.

and thanks to them my social skills suck to the core and i can't make friends easily. also i have never experience any joy in my life becos of them. thats why i want to move away from them so as to escape from this painful memories as well. i really hope to live a reborn life elsewhere and be happy

[ETOTE]

The extreme individualization of the West has it's own steep price. It's really nothing to be envied, just a different set of problems.

^disagree completely....

While the west, specifically the US, may not be perfect, there is nothing wrong with being an individual, freedom or liberty...without these, queer people in the west today would not be where they are....smh





ok,

I don't mean to offend here, but I'm going to be blunt.

After doing some reading a bit.....

LGBT rights are largely unrecognized in Malaysia. The government retains the colonial era penal code criminalizing sodomy. Social attitudes towards the LGBT community are also shaped by Islam, the official religion in Malaysia.....Same-sex sexual activity legal? Illegal
Penalty:
Death[1][2] or 20 years with or without fines and whippings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Malaysia


Your country is fucked up and backward.
I would do what has already been suggested. Say nothing to your family and endure your Twilight Zone until you finish school,become financially stable and can live on your own. Keep jacking off in your own private time otherwise keep any activity with a dude in complete secrecy.

Once you have been allowed by your fucked up, hypocritical, hateful society to grow up and be your own man, if you are not willing to fight for change in your country to change Islam's choke hold on the minds of its people, then move the fuck away to a completely different country and then tell your family you are gay and if they hate you for it, then they can go fuck off and burn in their Islamic hell.



A true family who loves you will love and accept you unconditionally even if they disagree with whatever choices you make. They will not hate or condemn you for simply being you, this is regardless of what country you live in or are from.

Those who feel the need to dictate how others, think, live and love are doing so in contrast to the natural world and basic human nature. People were not meant to live under tyranny, be controlled by or have their lives dictated to by their family, society, culture, government or country. Contrary to popular belief, human beings were born with free will and those who try to impose THEIR will onto others are doing so in opposition to the natural world, disrupting the balance and creating inequality, negativity, anger, fear, misery, pain and strife.


It is BS like this that makes me laugh when I hear people comment on how enlightened we are as humans.

I feel for you, hopefully your country and family will change so you won't have to abandon any loved ones, good luck.

[Uneunsae]

^ This is my last post on this particular topic as I do not wish to permanently derail the thread.

I didn't say anything about individual freedoms. That's a bit different than "individualism" vs "collectivism". In focusing only on ourselves and what we can do individually, we've paid a heavy price socially. You could have equal civil rights and still not have the "ME ME ME!" mentality. These are separate issues. In fact, for a happier society as a whole, civil rights are a must. Here in the USA, people think they can do anything and everything on their own and they want to exist without input from anyone else, or without sacrificing anything for anyone. If that's how one wants to live, then go out into the woods, build your own house, and live alone. It's the idea of individualism taken to the extreme. And yes, we have lost a GREAT DEAL as a society because of it. I would not expect many people who aren't part of another culture to really understand this, but they should try.

I did mention that it is a different set of problems, which is absolutely true. What I didn't say was "Oh my god, the USA is so awful and terrible, no one should live here, and it's the worst country in the world!" You put a lot of words into my mouth. Yes, the USA is not some Holy Grail where everything is perfect, and in this sense, it's not to be envied and seen as some holy motherland of awesomeness. It has its own problems, too. And tradeoffs. There are many special, beautiful, and wonderful things about other countries that we do not have here. Americans hate to admit it, but it's true.

You then went on to judge an entire country based on their homophobic law. Yes, THAT law is BACKWARDS, and HATEFUL, but to assume an entire country is? Instead of criticizing one law, you lambasted an entire country (and religion)? Now I'm the one shaking my head. Our country does a lot of things which are just as backwards and hateful, legally, that many people approve of, but does that represent the country or its people as a whole? There are probably many people in Malaysia who disagree with the idea of putting someone to death because of sodomy (even if they are homophobic), or are starting to think differently about homosexuality, just as they did here quite recently in the scope of history. Many times it is I who have felt like I am living in a Twilight Zone and I live here. Yes, I completely agree that the law is horrifying and WRONG, there's no question about it, but your thinking is full of so many absolutes.

Anyway, the OP wants to move to Canada so it doesn't really matter in this situation.

[ETOTE]

^Feel free to PM me.....

I didn't say anything about individual freedoms.

neither did I

"individualism" vs "collectivism".

using an exaggerated, extreme example...life as a Borg does not sound appealing....

In focusing only on ourselves and what we can do individually, we've paid a heavy price socially. You could have equal civil rights and still not have the "ME ME ME!" mentality. These are separate issues. In fact, for a happier society as a whole, civil rights are a must. Here in the USA, people think they can do anything and everything on their own and they want to exist without input from anyone else, or without sacrificing anything for anyone. If that's how one wants to live, then go out into the woods, build your own house, and live alone.

Being selfish, greedy and corrupt, which is what you are describing, is not a result of being an individual, it is a flaw that is part human nature. Not sure what reality you live in, but no one I know neither lives or expects to live without the understanding that in order to have a successful, thriving community, we cooperate and work together to benefit each other as individuals, not force people to give up their individuality and bend to the collective's will for the benefit of the supposed greater good. We do have civil rights without the "me", there are SOME people who take on that "me" mentality but they are not in the majority. And there are also many people who do just that, they become self sustaining, building their own house in the mountains or on an island somewhere and live alone but it is not practical, nor is it realistic especially for everyone.

It's the idea of individualism taken to the extreme. And yes, we have lost a GREAT DEAL as a society because of it.

like what? in the interest of also not derailing this thread, PM if you care to share what you mean here.

There are many special, beautiful, and wonderful things about other countries that we do not have here. Americans hate to admit it, but it's true.

^agreed, that is true, there are MANY wonderful and beautiful things that other countries have that the U.S. does not...a tyrannical government controlled by an oppressive religion is not one of them. I am a U.S. citizen and I don't hate admitting that.

You then went on to judge an entire country based on their homophobic law. Yes, THAT law is BACKWARDS, and HATEFUL, but to assume an entire country is? Instead of criticizing one law, you lambasted an entire country (and religion)? Now I'm the one shaking my head. Our country does a lot of things which are just as backwards and hateful, legally, that many people approve of, but does that represent the country or its people as a whole? There are probably many people in Malaysia who disagree with the idea of putting someone to death because of sodomy (even if they are homophobic), or are starting to think differently about homosexuality, just as they did here quite recently in the scope of history. Yes, I completely agree that the law is horrifying and WRONG, there's no question about it, but your thinking is full of so many absolutes.

It isn't just one law..... Having many friends myself over the years who fled Malaysia as well as Indonesia BECAUSE of their governments and the official religion being Islam, those friends chose to live here to get away from the very things we are discussing in this thread.

Social attitudes towards the LGBT community are also shaped by Islam, the official religion in Malaysia.

Malaysia retains its colonial era criminal ban on sodomy (as well as oral sex), broadly defined to include both heterosexual and homosexual acts, with possible punishment including fines, prison sentences of up to twenty years, and even corporal punishment. A subsection of the criminal code also provides additional punishment for men convicted of "gross indecency with another male person".[3] In addition to the secular law, Muslim citizens may also be charged in special Islamic courts

Living conditions[edit]
Same-sex sexual activity legal No (Penalty: prison sentence (2–20 years), fines, vigilante executions, or whippings)
Equal age of consent No
Anti-discrimination laws in employment No
Anti-discrimination laws in the provision of goods and services No
Anti-discrimination laws in all other areas (incl. indirect discrimination, hate speech) No
Same-sex marriage(s) No
Recognition of same-sex couples No
Adoption by same-sex couples No
Gays allowed to serve in the military No
Right to change legal gender No
Access to IVF for lesbians No
MSMs allowed to donate blood No

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Malaysia

You think religion and government are not going to play a heavy, influential role in social views, beliefs and how people treat each other and interact with each other in ALL levels of society, their institutions, dealings and expectations, creating an atmosphere of fear, mistrust and intolerance about many hard headed, narrow minded beliefs, stereotypes, superstitions and traditions? Come on now....Don't make me bitch slap you upside the head.


If what you say is true, then this thread would not exist and the OP would not be anonymous, living in fear and wanting to leave his country for how oppressive and unhappy his life is, abandoning his family who socially are reinforcing the influence of the religion and laws of that country...

HOW in the world do you not see that?????


Again in the interest of not derailing the thread PM me if you must.

[Uneunsae]

Bitch slap me? Really?

Why would I want to engage in discourse with anyone who talks like just because they disagree with someone else?

[Buzzer]

using an exaggerated, extreme example...life as a Borg does not sound appealing....

Ugh.

Here in the U.S., we're always talking about the struggles of people like single mothers, or low income working couples, who have children and the cost and difficulty of obtaining things like childcare when the parent(s) have to work long shifts or multiple jobs to support the family.

That discussion is incomprehensible in a culture where it's not just common but practically the norm for 3 generations to live together where the older help take care of the younger and you have never once in your life needed to pay a babysitter.

That's just one very simple example of what Unensae meant by individualism vs. collectivism, and the price that is paid for the often concentrated form of individualism that is emphasized in the U.S. as completely normal. In the U.S., we do not very frequently have these discussions because we so much regard our own society as either the norm-- or, if not the norm, then the pinnacle to which everyone else probably ought to be striving to be like for their own good. But you will frequently hear many other cultures comment on how one thing they do not feel is better here, and do not wish to see diminish or assimilated away, is emphasis on close family life. I've heard that not just from Asians but from Latinos and many Eastern Europeans as well.

[ETOTE]

this quoting thing on this site....gggrrr

Bitch slap me? Really?

Why would I want to engage in discourse with anyone who talks like just because they disagree with someone else?

Figurative, light-hearted humor to engender mutual respect in easing tension over something we clearly disagree on....aka being silly.

[Uneunsae]

I don't equate "bitch slap" with respect, sorry.

[ETOTE]

^so you don't joke around with people you like then?

[Borg69]

using an exaggerated, extreme example...life as a Borg does not sound appealing....

Hey now... watch it buster... unless you wanna see your Tribbles assimilated.