Out in the closet...

[Virge]

Swing by Lebanon and take Bluestar with you... he's in your same shoes and needs rescued too.

I don't know about the rest of you guys --- but as far as I'm concerned BlueStar is like a little brudder to me and i could get that way real quick about VerySimple. It takes special types of guys to keep positive and healthy attitudes with all the negative things they face.

One my JayMan gets here --- and we get the new out of actually living together --- one of the big projects he and I are going to be trying to start up is something that no one is doing but is much needed. Why are there no efforts to organize all the gay communities that are in the free world to help people like BlueStar and VerySimple escape from nations where they cannot be free?

The way things are now if they do make it to safe havens it's like they arrive with next to no friends into cultures that are overwhelming for them. I've talked with a few and am always trying to talk to more when I have the chance to meet them on line and in person. We ought to be organizing to take them in as friends to help them make the transitions into our free cultures, learn the limits and responsibilities as well as all the subtle customs and behaviours in a world where --- even though none of us are as equal as we should be to non-gays --- we are getting closer everyday. Now in the USA INS is granting political asylum to gay men and women who face death and punishment in their own nations for being gay.

Why have gays in the USA, Australia and other nations organized to help our brothers and sisters in nations where they are endangered by politics and religion?

[Borg69]

Thank you for pointing me out. Actually Jordan and Lebanon are almost equal regarding LGBT rights sullied.

So VerySimple, what you think about to save yourself and escape is exactly what I'm thinking about... Or so I guess. Save money and leave this country ASAP, and it would be even safer if you never came out to your family.

Like Memechose, I kinda view you and VerySimple as "little brothers", and worry about you guys over there and what you have to deal with and hope that you guys are ok. I hope that you guys can get out of there safely, and lead/live happy lives without fear of your own people/families/friends turning on you. You're great guys, and deserve far better than the hand the Fates have dealt you. ♥

Even if you got out, having to turn your backs on those you love and the place that you should be able to call home won't be an easy task. Neither road will be easy. I commend the strength you guys will have to face on either path you chose.

[BlueStar]

I don't know about the rest of you guys --- but as far as I'm concerned BlueStar is like a little brudder to me and i could get that way real quick about VerySimple. It takes special types of guys to keep positive and healthy attitudes with all the negative things they face.

One my JayMan gets here --- and we get the new out of actually living together --- one of the big projects he and I are going to be trying to start up is something that no one is doing but is much needed. Why are there no efforts to organize all the gay communities that are in the free world to help people like BlueStar and VerySimple escape from nations where they cannot be free?

The way things are now if they do make it to safe havens it's like they arrive with next to no friends into cultures that are overwhelming for them. I've talked with a few and am always trying to talk to more when I have the chance to meet them on line and in person. We ought to be organizing to take them in as friends to help them make the transitions into our free cultures, learn the limits and responsibilities as well as all the subtle customs and behaviours in a world where --- even though none of us are as equal as we should be to non-gays --- we are getting closer everyday. Now in the USA INS is granting political asylum to gay men and women who face death and punishment in their own nations for being gay.

Why have gays in the USA, Australia and other nations organized to help our brothers and sisters in nations where they are endangered by politics and religion?

Like Memechose, I kinda view you and VerySimple as "little brothers", and worry about you guys over there and what you have to deal with and hope that you guys are ok. I hope that you guys can get out of there safely, and lead/live happy lives without fear of your own people/families/friends turning on you. You're great guys, and deserve far better than the hand the Fates have dealt you. ♥

Even if you got out, having to turn your backs on those you love and the place that you should be able to call home won't be an easy task. Neither road will be easy. I commend the strength you guys will have to face on either path you chose.

Thank you so much for giving us hope you're like my big brothers too.

My dream since I was a little kid was to leave this awful country and spend my life in a liberal LGBT-friendly one, and to pursue this dream at all costs. However now the cost matters, I could more than easily leave my psychotic mentally sick family, and even say bitter goodbye to my best friend and those few friends I have... But what about my boyfriend? I'm stuck between him and my dreams of freedom...

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I need to correct something here.

In the US the ability for LGBT to walk around open and out is only in a few major metropolitan areas. In most areas of the USA you still get screamed at, there are still physical gay bashings. Heck back in the 1990's in San Francisco the old gang of bashers with baseball bats working over a suspected homosexual was still a popular sport for bashers.

And it is still happening today:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/12/us/michiga...e-beating/

Man's beating at Detroit gay pride festival caught on tape

(CNN) -- The beating of a gay man during a gay pride festival in Detroit over the weekend was caught on camera. Christin Howard, a 20-year-old hair dresser, was attacked by a group of men on Detroit's Riverwalk during the Motor City Pride event on Sunday. A video shot by a bystander shows the group kicking and punching Howard.

There is a video there... I didn't watch it because the title alone was enough to bring back some not to happy memories of when I stumbled upon the beaten near dead bodies of some guys.

This image you have of a totally free LGBT community in the USA is wrong. We are not free.

Whilst gay marriage is being passed in several states, there are still the majority of states where marriage ain't going to happen for a while to come.

We still lose our jobs if we come out of the closet at work. Granted, many places have anti-discrimination laws that 'protect' LGBT, but not all - and in the cases where there are anti-discrimination laws, the boss just comes up with some lame assed excuse so on paper you were fired for being 30 seconds late two days in a row, but in reality you were fired because your a pervert, sicko, bound for hell homosexual.....

In the USA the discrimination is worse in that now the discrimination is being driven underground, its not like we know where and when we can be and cannot be openly gay. Unlike the Middle East where society makes it perfectly clear 'You can't be gay', in the USA you run a risk of stepping on the wrong toes, and get a surprise education if you dare to come out to the wrong people in the wrong place.

With my second relationship, when that ended (he beat the crap of me) the very police who were supposed to do something about a guy beating the crap out of a person, stood there and laughed and said 'the fucking faggot deserved it' That fucking faggot BTW was me.

Staff in hospitals who are forced by law to treat us 'faggots' will make it pretty damn clear that they ain't happy about it. There are those who it doesn't matter, but I assure you if you come across one of those who have a problem, they will remind you about AIDS and other assorted 'gay diseases', doing their best to inform you that the reason why the are putting on a second pair of latex gloves is because they feel that you are a dirty faggot who is going to spread disease to them.

So its not really that much better....

[Aike]

If you're ever planning to move out of Jordan, choose your country well

[Virge]

I need to correct something here.

In the US the ability for LGBT to walk around open and out is only in a few major metropolitan areas. In most areas of the USA you still get screamed at, there are still physical gay bashings. Heck back in the 1990's in San Francisco the old gang of bashers with baseball bats working over a suspected homosexual was still a popular sport for bashers. And it is still happening today: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/12/us/michiga...e-beating/
There is a video there... I didn't watch it because the title alone was enough to bring back some not to happy memories of when I stumbled upon the beaten near dead bodies of some guys. This image you have of a totally free LGBT community in the USA is wrong. We are not free.Whilst gay marriage is being passed in several states, there are still the majority of states where marriage ain't going to happen for a while to come.We still lose our jobs if we come out of the closet at work. Granted, many places have anti-discrimination laws that 'protect' LGBT, but not all - and in the cases where there are anti-discrimination laws, the boss just comes up with some lame assed excuse so on paper you were fired for being 30 seconds late two days in a row, but in reality you were fired because your a pervert, sicko, bound for hell homosexual.....
In the USA the discrimination is worse in that now the discrimination is being driven underground, its not like we know where and when we can be and cannot be openly gay. Unlike the Middle East where society makes it perfectly clear 'You can't be gay', in the USA you run a risk of stepping on the wrong toes, and get a surprise education if you dare to come out to the wrong people in the wrong place.With my second relationship, when that ended (he beat the crap of me) the very police who were supposed to do something about a guy beating the crap out of a person, stood there and laughed and said 'the fucking faggot deserved it' That fucking faggot BTW was me. Staff in hospitals who are forced by law to treat us 'faggots' will make it pretty damn clear that they ain't happy about it. There are those who it doesn't matter, but I assure you if you come across one of those who have a problem, they will remind you about AIDS and other assorted 'gay diseases', doing their best to inform you that the reason why the are putting on a second pair of latex gloves is because they feel that you are a dirty faggot who is going to spread disease to them.So its not really that much better....

Bowyn if you go back and read what I wrote you'll see I acknowledged the situation isn't perfect in the USA or any nations. There was no need for you to "correct" anything. They best thing you could do to broaden your cynicism and pessimism would be for you to actually experience true oppression and punishment for your sexual identity as thousands of man do yearly from Morocco to Bangladesh.

Here's you a new logo.

[bluedragon]

I don't know about the rest of you guys --- but as far as I'm concerned BlueStar is like a little brudder to me and i could get that way real quick about VerySimple. It takes special types of guys to keep positive and healthy attitudes with all the negative things they face.

One my JayMan gets here --- and we get the new out of actually living together --- one of the big projects he and I are going to be trying to start up is something that no one is doing but is much needed. Why are there no efforts to organize all the gay communities that are in the free world to help people like BlueStar and VerySimple escape from nations where they cannot be free?

The way things are now if they do make it to safe havens it's like they arrive with next to no friends into cultures that are overwhelming for them. I've talked with a few and am always trying to talk to more when I have the chance to meet them on line and in person. We ought to be organizing to take them in as friends to help them make the transitions into our free cultures, learn the limits and responsibilities as well as all the subtle customs and behaviours in a world where --- even though none of us are as equal as we should be to non-gays --- we are getting closer everyday. Now in the USA INS is granting political asylum to gay men and women who face death and punishment in their own nations for being gay.

Why have gays in the USA, Australia and other nations organized to help our brothers and sisters in nations where they are endangered by politics and religion?

memechose, I'm glad to hear that you are helping people out and socializing with them.

There were a few LGBT organisations in my country which tried to gather support for the gay community. These organisations were started by gay-friendly straight people. However, these people were criticized and even labelled as "gays in closets". These people were fired from their jobs and were shunned by their families for supporting gay rights. Sadly, these organizations were closed down. The message sent to everybody was like "Even if you are not gay and support gay rights, you are still considered as one."

Many homosexual people I know (single or couple) chose to migrate to Europe, Canada etc because they had enough of being condemned by the society and want to live somewhere without shame and with pride.

I'm also considering to move to another country but its not easy.

There are many factors to consider:
-Whether you will be able to find a stable job there?
-Whether you can adapt to that country's culture and environment?
-Whether you have enough savings to live there?
-Whether its easy to find a home/apartment for rent?

Plus leaving my family behind makes me feel guilty and sad. I'm certain they will never accept or approve my sexuality if I come out to them. I mean my parents have brought me up from young. I feel like I'm not appreciating their love and care for me by leaving them and migrating over.

Also like what memechose has mentioned, I'll also not know anyone in that new country. Maybe if there are gay organisations,clubs or societies there, I can join them and start making new friends with a fresh start.

But ultimately, sometimes I find I dun have the guts and courage to migrate and live my own life. Also, its no easy task to move to another country as it involves many things to be done. I sometimes think that I have to lead a fake life here and remain single. Of course, my family and relatives will be very happy. But in the end, I'll probably going to regret for not living my life when I'm in my deathbed.

[Wardo94]

I'm only out to my sister's and best friend so far. If I haven't come out, living in New York, I definately wouldn't in your shoes. Just on a 'better safe, than sorry', outlook on it. I think it's always best to come out when you think you're most independent and you live on your own. So from there, if family do abandon you, it won't affect you as much, as oppose to you coming out while living with them, and risking getting kicked out of the house or worse.

[Virge]

Bluedragon... Thanks.

I have talked to people who have left nations to migrate to the USA and Australia. All say the same thing about their arrivals. They are lost when they arrive and find it difficult to find their way into the gay communities into which they have moved. There is much they are unaccustomed to and there's no one helping them to learn the ways of a new culture and adapt to a new way of life.

There is a HUGE cultural shock for any man coming from a nation where homosexuality is a crime and leads to becoming a complete social outcast and they must be very secretive and afraid. There is much to learn and UNLEARN in order to blend into gay communities in Canada, the US and Australia and certainly in other nations. For many of the immigrants who cannot easily move into mainstream gay life they seek out the company of immigrants from nations familiar to them who continue the same hostilities towards gay people they had before they immigrated.

My idea is to coordinate with gay immigrants and learn all the hard things they encountered when they arrived in new lands and get them to tell the rest of us how to do better. We should be able to sponsor gay immigrants and introduce them into a culture unlike anything they've experienced and help them unlearn the ways they had to survive in hostile homelands.

Members like Bluedragon, BlueStar, and VerySimple etc are in GaySpeak learning how we interact, make friends and build loving relationships and that is wonderful. But then there are thousands of others who live with the constant fear of being arrested, fired and becoming outcasts and even blackmailed by those who take advantage of them with threats of telling the police or family they are gay. Coming from cultures like that into cultures like those found in large cities with large gay populations is not easy for them and it is cruel for them to arrive with no one to help them adjust.

I understand this from a personal standpoint from my own life. I live 9 hours from the nearest "gay city" Minneapolis and 14 hours from Chicago. When I go there I experience cultural shock without anyone to act as my guide. Believe it or not --- my straight room mate is the best guide I have!!!!!!!!! He knows his way about gay culture better than I do sometimes.

I'm still learning the language and make mistakes in conversation. Example : If I say I'm into "tricking" in Chicago guys assume I mean I'm there to do sex for money. NO! Tricking is also the mix of martial arts and gymnastics that many guys like Ray and I do. For me when I say I "like to party" is means hang out with friends and drink --- not do crystal meth.

Those are just 2 examples from my life. Now imagine what BlueDragon, BlueStar or VerySimple would experience going to the same cities and their bars.

[NowakiSelf]

Yea, I'm sorry that you're in this kind of situation. It's crap that in the 21st century people are still persecuted for being gay. But just try and look forward, not back, gay rights movements are developing. Even if it is slow in a lot of areas.

I agree with some of the other guys in saying that you should move away. I think as a parent I would want what was best for my child, and if that meant moving away then so be it. If they aren't aware of your sexuality if/when you decide to move then just tell them you want to go travelling and explore the world. I'm not sure what advice to offer if you plan on staying though, just make sure you ou only tell people you know you can trust is probably the best that's available.

If you do plan on moving to alternative countries then come to the UK . There a are lots of lgbt groups available over here, as in some other countries in the EU. And in some cases you're able to claim 'Seeking Asylum' for fear of persecution in your home country. The main thing is to keep positive, options are always available, you just have to find out how to take them.

Good luck with your future.