advice on friendship/love interest

[abcd1234]

I'm wondering and this could be just a hunch on my part.He says he has a girlfriend and yet you've never met her and he doesn't want you to meet her.I personally don't think there is anybody.Maybe he just said that to keep you at bay because he's in the closet.I had a similar situation with a closet case who I befriended.He supposedly had a girlfriend in England who he saw once or twice a year yet he never looked for any girls here and he spent most of his free time with me.What happened was I think I brought his true feelings to the surface and he lashed out at me very badly. That's just my 2 cents but sometimes insecure guys will hide behind women.

[charles]

thanks for the feedback everyone.

I talked to him today after not talking to him for 5 days. I was determined to finally confront him and be honest. I had even rehearsed what I was going to say. Unfortunately, I chickened out.

He seemed distracted and he was not really connecting with me. In other words, he was the usual self he always is whenever he comes back form visiting his girlfriend (which makes sense because she's here now). I chickened out because I didn't want to make a fool of myself. It's not that I expect a positive outcome after I tell him that I have feelings for him, but I would at least want him to own up to his feelings as well even if nothing happens. Today just felt like a day where he would dismiss me as crazy... so I opted out.

One thing I did get a chance to ask was why he doesn't want me to bring up his girlfriend in our conversations. I kind of asked to see if it would force him to say something. But he was just silent and then he changed topics. So... I didn't really gain much. I did state that if that's what he wanted, I would respect it. Part of me wishes I hadn't said that.

Anyway, this is really emotionally draining. We fight all the time like a married couple over the silliest things and I think it all has to do with a lot of unresolved tension. Neither one of us is brave enough to open up. And quite frankly, I'm scared because I really like the guy and I don't want to lose him. I'm also scared because i have to go through some career exams and now is not the time for me to face a real heartbreak.

At the same time.... guys... believe me.... I understand how irrational I am being. I understand that I deserve someone who loves me the way that I want to be loved. But it's so damn hard to control how you feel. It's so hard. I'm feeling in the pits at the moment. i don't know what to do.

[East]

I would suggest that what it is you don't like about him is the exact thing you DO like about him...and the very reason you are attracted to him.....

It isn't him you need to work it out with....and you may find yourself attracted to someone with similar dynamics in the future if you don't figure out your own role in this...because your role is the important part of the equation....

[MikeW]

But it's so damn hard to control how you feel. It's so hard. I'm feeling in the pits at the moment. i don't know what to do..

Yeah, I think [MENTION=18508]East[/MENTION] is right. You need to back off from this whole situation and take care of your own business. Then you need to do some inner work on yourself and find out why you're so attracted to this kind of *unavailable* man. Because, he's right, if you don't get clear on this, you're going to repeat this again and again.

[meridannight]

i think you have made things harder for yourself by not being definitive. you always played it safe in this situation. you didn't know if he would be interested in more than friendship and you didn't want to risk it at any point. you never made it clear you wanted anything more than a friendship, so you can't really blame him for all this confusion. some of the confusion comes from you wanting more, but not wanting to be the one to make that clear. either you want him as a friend, or you want more, but be honest with yourself and him.

sometimes you have to risk it. some bridges have to be burned in order to get anywhere. it would be nice if we could all play it safe and never take any unnecessary risks, but life doesn't work that way. you have to know what it is you want, and then do something about it to take it.

[charles]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to update people and maybe get people's opinion.

Since the last time I posted, I had a falling out with the guy. It essentially involved his girlfriend. There was a time when he ignored all my calls and texts for a couple days. Then when he finally picked up, his girlfriend answered. He had her answer on purpose. It was the first time I had EVER interacted with her. It was awkward and it upset me. I was so mad at him. Anyway, I still ended up talking to him at some point later that evening and he calmed me down and everything seemed fine. After the call, I texted him telling him that I was not interested in talking to his gf again.... something I had said when we talked... but the text message upset him for some reason. What ensued was a series of bitter text messages.... including a passive aggressive one from me saying that if he wanted me to talk to her, I would and that I would tell her that he had forbidden me from ever talking about her or saying her name (which is true). After that message he ignored all my texts and we had a fall out for a month or more.

To be honest.... I was going through a hard part of my life... and the fact that he backed away from me when I needed him the MOST hurt tremendously. I acknowledge that I shared some responsibility in this matter, but it still hurt. A LOT. After a little more than a month, I finally reached out to him. I was moving to a different state and needed some closure. I didn't want to end things negatively because at the end of the day I still appreciated the friendship we had had.

When I reached out to him... he was very angry and mad at me... but somehow after a conversation we were able to reconcile our differences. I was leaving in 2 days, and he invited me for drinks the next day.

Getting drinks with him was great. I appreciated the nice gesture and it gave us an opportunity to catch up. I just wanted to be on good terms with him, so I was encouraging and supportive whenever her mentioned his gf. There were however many subtle things that he mentioned that turned my wheels. For instance.... he told me that his girlfriend (who is from abroad) was staying longer. But he framed it in terms of it being less expensive this way and that it allowed him to focus on his studies. When I made a comment on how their relationship was getting very serious... he told me that it wasn't.... that he wasn't really "in love." He made all these comments almost in a way to reassure me.... I know it's weird to say that... but that's just how his language and body language made it feel.

We both ended up getting drunk (he kept buying me drinks). At one point late in the night, I stepped out of the bar for a second, and when I came back his girlfriend was there. That was the first time I had EVER met her. To say that I was upset is an understatement, but I hid it. I had run into a couple friends at the bar, so I just gave them space and hung out with my friends. When it was time to go, we walked back to our homes, forcing me to interact with her. I was leaving the next day, and at that point I thought I didn't care anymore so I was fine talking to her and faking being nice. But I quickly realized that I could not get along with her. Our personalities clashed very, very, quickly. I got into heated discussions about my viewpoints on life and then about the guy. I essentially told her that she needed to support him more and be there for him. My viewpoints were strong and I was fervent when I spoke. It got to a point that I told her that I didn't care about her opinion....That I cared about what he thought... not her. She ended up walking away..... but my friend didn't ran after her... he stayed there with me. I apologized to him and I told him that I was sorry that things had to end this way. I told him that I cared a lot about him and that not talking to him was one of the hardest things I ever had to do... at that point he started to cry... and I did too... the intensity was so high (in a good way)...our eyes locked for a long time... there were so many feelings there.... I just walked away though because I knew he had to catch up to his gf.

When I got home... I got a text message from him saying "no sex for me tonight." he is never the first person to text... so I thought it was a bit weird... but I replied: "makeup sex is better. you are welcome." his followup was the most surprising and it is what is confusing me. his text was: "I still love you don't worry."

He has never said anything like that to me.... EVER. he's not someone to use the word "love" lightly either. I've always felt like he has tried to block his feelings for me... and this was the first affirmation i had ever gotten.
I want to get people's opinions on this. how would you guys interpret all of this?

[Bowyn Aerrow]

My interpretation is there is two young people who don't know Self sufficiently to even begin to grasp Other in any meaningful way.

You're 'label' as "Single Curious Man" means you need to work on yourself a bit here, figure out who you are and what you really are.

His Girlfriend across the endless sea of stars sounds like one of those 'safe' relationships where he doesn't actually have to commit to her, but can carry the label of being a straight man with a girlfriend to throw off any suspicion that he is a flaming queen (gay).

You have this tendency to focus on 'I need......' and appear to not understand that he has needs as well. His having needs appears to annoy you. When he wanted to talk about her, you 'needed' his silence. Now he doesn't want to talk about her and you 'need' him to talk.

Perhaps his needs are that he needed to talk to you before, but you shut him down, made the message clear that his need in this aspect wasn't important. Now you are demanding him to talk to you but you already shut that door and locked it, and are expecting him to 'forget' that you couldn't handle his needs before on this subject.

The worst people to form a relationship with are those people who have no clue what it is they really want or need. Perhaps for me this is the most unbearable because I try to appease and please others. It is real hard to please a person if they don't know what the fuck they want and keep on changing the rules on stuff.

Closets are for Clothes. Period.

Anyone who is in the closet and is trying to be double agent and work for both sides of the Gay/Straight Nations ends up hating themselves and hating everyone in their life.

BOTH of you are in the closet, both of you are pretending to be in public and around some people to 'just be friends' - then alone or with select people you are being yourselves. This sort of 'double agent' thing is psychologically untenable, and actually requires serious training in order to pull it off with success and without doing major psychological damage to self (and the victims that get lashed out on).

Unless both of you work for the NSA, CIA, FBI, KGB, M16.... etc. etc. etc., I seriously doubt you have the correcting training to pull off leading double lives for success in these 'impossible missions' and most importantly to maintain any healthy balance in your mental and emotional areas of your lives.

I don't need to pull out my cracked crystal ball to tell you the future here. I have heard this story and witness others go through this terrible play enough to know that you two are not going to last long as a couple - that both of you will come to loath and hate the other, and more heartbreaking, both of you will come to hate self a little more.

The heart to heart discussion you two really need is the one where you both face who and what you really are and make the choice if you are going to stay playing the role of double agent, or if you are going to put that to the side and be what and who you really are.

It won't be easy, and no doubt you two are not going to end up wanting/needing the same thing at the same time. As such its going to hurt - a hella lot.

The thing that needs to be made perfectly clear here is that if you two cannot share the same relative path/goal, that you two must end your 'friendship' and move on in your individual lives.

That means you two need to agree upon a reasonable allotted time of silence between each other. I suggest 1 year interval to see what happens. IF in a year's time you make your prearranged contact and have your meeting and find out that both of you now share the same goal, go forward as friends.

If after that year you two are still on different courses, then its time to let go and let God/life run its course and you two go your separate ways, live your separate lives and each of you take from this experience the lessons that make you better individuals.

If you do not do it this way, what will happen is you two will get stuck in this vicious circle and both continually getting hurt, and hurting each other, and sowing the seeds of resentments which will grow to be seeds of hatred and indifference. Indifference is worse than hatred.

And it will be a prolonged experience, which will stymie both of your chances to reach some understanding of 'self' and find a working life situation.

Mind, being stuck in this vicious circle will mean that you both run a higher risk of being stagnated in this situation, meaning other opportunities of personal growth will be lost - which includes (but is by no means limited to) finding a person to fulfill and satisfy your needs.

To be honest, I never put myself through this sort of thing. I met my first lover who was out of the closet, and committed myself to work on my closet issues. I gave myself a realistic deadline to work with - with the clear understanding being that If I could not find myself coming out of the closet and join him, that I would walk away. That understanding was a goal I set for myself.

I worked on the 'issues' for 6 months, and ultimately decided to come out. Yes I lost a lot of friends, got disowned by my father and other negative stuff. BUT I ended up with a lot of unexpected positive stuff in my life, meet wonderful people who gave me gifts of experiences which have no monetary value.

YOU need to sit down and contemplate your behaviors and try to put yourself in the position of a person who only sees what you do, say and behave, with no understanding or data on what you are feeling.

While it is hard, its not impossible do to that.

I think if you are honest with yourself and gain perspective on how this would look to others, you will see all you need to see in order to work on how you have approached this situation and how painful and hard it has been for him to meet your needs/wants.

If you can't gain perspective here, then I fear that may be a sign of a deeper psychological problem that should prompt you to seek professional therapy.

[meridannight]

When I got home... I got a text message from him saying "no sex for me tonight." he is never the first person to text... so I thought it was a bit weird... but I replied: "makeup sex is better. you are welcome." his followup was the most surprising and it is what is confusing me. his text was: "I still love you don't worry."

He has never said anything like that to me.... EVER. he's not someone to use the word "love" lightly either. I've always felt like he has tried to block his feelings for me... and this was the first affirmation i had ever gotten.
I want to get people's opinions on this. how would you guys interpret all of this?

you're a fool. all this time and you're still in the same messy place you were when you first posted. you haven't figured yourself out nor what you want from this situation. either you want him more than a friend or you have to accept friendship only but you can't have both (it actually is doable, having both, but you are not in a place to pull that off).

you are overcomplicating the things and the relations between you two with all kinds of small stuff that doesn't matter at all. you are, in reality, being overdramatic, making problems out of things that should slide under the radar.

and you have not, in fact, done anything to let him know that you are interested in more than friendship. instead you're circling around the light afraid to get too close lest you reveal yourself too much. but that is exactly what you should be doing. trying to read what's ''in his eyes'' or behind the words he uses will get you nowhere. if you do see love for you there in his eyes, if it's certain to you it is there -- then why in the world have you not opened the subject on that one? if it's there, you shouldn't have a problem doing something about it and dissolving all this confusion. otherwise, deep care on his side can be misjudged for love when you are the one in love.

and the final part that should hit home for you -- if he really wanted you, he would do something about it. if he doesn't, then whatever it is he feels for you might be however strong, but it's not romantic love. the thing that you want from him. even if he is torn he is not torn enough, which means he's not interested enough to do anything about it.

the plain truth here is, he's still with his girlfriend, moving in permanently with her it seems. he is having sex with her, he hasn't even touched you.

this is why you have to figure yourself out and know what it is you want. and by that i mean you have to know whether the guy you want is a friendship-material for you, or someone you want sex/relationship with. two different circumstances and strategies there. if you can't just settle for friendship, then you have to make yourself clear on it. you didn't do that. i'm sorry, but what did you expect?

[phillyboy1234]

To the OP: where do you see things going?

If I understand correctly, you text him like you are married and get annoyed that he doesn't reciprocate. Yet on the outside neither one of you wants anything more than friends. On a more personal level, at least you would appreciate something privately much closer.

Does that sum it up?

[East]

Pay attention to his actions...not his words...

He has chosen to live with her....go home with her...sleep with her...

That's it...there is your closure...move on...

If you find yourself with another man or interested in another man that is unobtainable...try to stop yourself from repeating this same behavior...it will become a pattern...and one you may never emerge from...