coming out drama in asian home lol

[Cridders88]

You are having a rough time of it Leafblade, it's horrible your mum is subjecting you to this treatment. It's your decision at the end of the day, but I wouldn't get the car with her, you are tying yourself even more to her by doing that, and already you are concerned it won't work out. And with what you have told us about your mum? I have every reason to believe that it won't, and you will end up out of pocket.

[MikeW]

...tl;dr
im not sure if mom is capable of listening or trying to understand her children bc she obv treat her friends waaay differently.

EDIT: im sorry if im writing too much. sometimes i think im just irritated everytime my mom opens her mouth in general.
like she ask me if i heard about the news of this toronto chinese girl hiring hitmen to kill her parents bc family reasons. then she just ask if my sis and i were gonna kill her. Is this how normal people read the news or just my mom? read a news and asking if what happen in the news would happen to her, instead of like, say, if you don't want to be killed maybe act as a better person?

I did read it all, although quickly. But I want to make one thing quite clear:

I'm NOT suggesting you "argue" or attempt to "reason" with your mother or try and change her position. I have no doubt in my mind that would not only be a waste of time, it would be the exact WRONG thing to do.

You are stuck in a dynamic with your mother. Your attention is focused WAY WAY WAY too much on HER and not on yourself and your own life. THAT is the problem.

I'm suggesting you set BOUNDARIES with her and enforce those boundaries. I know this will not be easy for you but at the very least try to understand and consider what I mean by that.

For example, lets say the subject of your sexuality comes up. You (in your own words): "Mom, I will NOT have this conversation with you. I am not interested in your opinion. Stop talking about it right now or I will leave." That is, you stop replying to her, you get up and leave the room. You go to your own room and lock the door. Or you go get in the car and go somewhere, anywhere, away from her. You STOP going round and round with her. Just stop it. Put your foot down and keep it down --- no back and forth, no attempt to reason, no explanations for who you are, what you are, where you are or where you've been or where you're going. NONE of that.

You're 20 years old. You still have a lot of maturing to do but you're old enough to begin putting on your big-boy pants and having the balls to tell this insane woman to fuck the hell off. You owe her NOTHIG. She got pregnant with you and she has fed you and clothed you and housed you up to this point. BUT NOW she is abusing you with her negativity and bullshit and, since she cannot and will not stop it, it i up to YOU to stop it. Stop talking to her about any of this stuff. YOU make the rules and don't let her override you.

Again, you do NOT have to justify yourself or explain yourself AT ALL to her. Just walk out on her. Leave her flat. And most importantly, learn to stop thinking about her.

I know this will not be easy for you -- especially living in her house which is why we all want you to get out.

You know what? I'll put this invitation out to you publicly: If you want to come stay with me for a week out here in California, you're welcome to. I have a "spare" room (I just use it as a kind of walk in closet). It isn't luxurious, I live in a "student ghetto" just four blocks from UC Berkeley. Most of the people in my building are students (and most of them are of Asian heritage BTW). You can have an entire week not experiencing your mother. An entire week to explore a whole other world (the Bay Area, San Francisco). You do NOT have to ask her permission. You do NOT have to even tell her where you are going or why you are going. You just GO and give her a taste of what it would be like for to have a life without you. And, more importantly, give YOURSELF a taste of what a life without her would be like!

I'm making this invitation public because I want to be clear, there are no hooks or strings attached on my end. You're welcome to come visit, hang out, go off on your own. You can drive here or fly here and rent a car. You don't have to pay rent... but you will need to buy food and pay your own way to whatever else you want to do. I have my own life here so although we may spend some time together, you'll have plenty of time to do whatever you want. Got to some of the clubs in SF... meet other gay men your age... especially those with your heritage and background. All this can be done IF you just do it.

My main point is you STOP arguing with your mother. Period. STOP having ANY discourse with her about sexuality, religion, anything where you are put on the spot by her and feel you have to "DEFEND" yourself. You do NOT have to "defend" yourself to her. Not at all. All you have to do is STOP letting her rule over and ruin your life experience.

End of rant.

[TigerLover]

Her treatment of you is incredibly cynical. She's trying to seize control of you so she can "Fix" you.
It must be tempting to simply endure it until you can afford to move out. But no matter how strong you are this treatment is going to grind down your self esteem. You have to act now to reduce the abuse.

Getting you to co-sign a lease is a transparent attempt to sink her claws deeper into you. But it's also a golden opportunity to assert yourself. No matter what she says you need to refuse. Don't even acknowledge her arguments just dismiss them out of hand. Just keep saying saying i don't want to. If you're too polite to do that then come up with a simple argument like (I'm trying to learn financial independence) then repeat it every time this conversation comes up, be as stubborn as she is.

You also might want to look carefully for other ways she's trying to extend financial control over you.

Sorry I know you didn't want advice, I just couldn't help myself, my comment just sort of morphed into advice while I was writing it

Oh I'm an atheist too and objectively speaking disapproving of gay people is about as Christian as Ganesha. The bible is just used as an excuse.

[LeafBlade]

I'm replying again but I'm sorry if this was a mixture of what happened today, self commentary, and aside. I have too many asides in my head. I'm like constantly using things from back when and way back when and recent and current to piece together my mom's behavior.

lmao, im too broke to even travel there, i have like <2k in my bank rn hahaha
but it's fine though because next week after my presentation (academia lab thing) i will start mass job hunting and I Hope to get something that will give me more income and less time at home. I just hope I don't get fat in the process bc rn im not even doing home exercise nor going to the gym.
(oh when my sis was working a lot and being more outside of home a lot some time ago, my mom also complained about not spending family time together. but i can't remember if the word "quality" was in there and what it meant between the 3 of us. sorry, aside.)

ok so this conversation happened while i was helping to cut chicken in the kitchen
okay so I told my mom No on the car thing. she had a pause and then ask my the reason, to which I said I am not prepared. then another pause and she ask me if i talk to friends or my sis about this. i forget what i said to that, prob yes. then she's like how im not paying or something >_>
Well, one semester in college I had frequently reminded mom and she still didn't do tax on time, and while she was doing it on turbotax, she still managed to blame me for whatever fault I can't remember, if not blaming, the tone was still framing it as if i did something bad or wrong #cant remember
(AND when she was on the phone with her friend, she just said it like I'm giving her stress and pressure to do a "FORM". exact word, FORM. so you can't be honest and tell your friend that you aren't doing your own taxes. but of course im not going to interject during my eavesdropping/her talking loudly)
And if what my sister said was right, then that means that if my mom don't feel like paying for whatever reason, then I would have to pay the car myself or ruin my credit. so i guess i dodged this one maybe.

anyways, after that she also went back to ask me about gay things like if I had dated, and how if i thought about my future if I would date a partner, single, or marry a woman (???). I prob could have tell her that with gay marriage passed, a sham marriage wouldn't be needed, but i just said that I haven't think that far.
and then she pretty much just went off (again for the n-th time) about how im not telling her secrets anymore or how we should be open as a family. then she was saying how she even told us the part that she was adopted. (yeah like 20+ years later into our lives but ok.) I said that I don't care. then it was something something about giving moral/mental support to fix/change or something i dont even remember what it was in chinese nor english. but I know I responded with something like you assumed that things need to be fixed/changed.
and then she had paused for a while and then picked up her phone, dialed a (presumably chinese christian) friend and lock her door and talk.

I am bad but I basically eavesdropped a bit by the door first and then in my sister's room (THIN WALL). but i basically just heard about church, god, satan, and stuff. I have a feeling that my mom told at leat one person how I'm gay. and recycled the same thing she told X number of her friends about things like my sis and I. IDK who but one part was like how (one of us? both?) was/were obedient but not anymore bc some frineds influence or something. (Sure, blame it on friend but not seeing past your BS.) then something was about switching church to an american one. then i also vaguely hear something about strict church which I have no idea what that means, unless strict means like basically a church that says what she wants to hear about viewpoints on things. Ok eavesdropping is bad D:

and i prob overheard about the part she got offended/pissed about the part how i said that she's assuming thing.

self commentary:
1) ok so basically in her view is that family= let's tell your secret. but i don't thikn it works like that. and now she's mad cause i'm not telling her my secrets LOLOL.
2) so i think her idea of finance is the american way of being in multiple debt/loan, but even though I'm a noob to this, I feel that it doesn't have to be this way to do finance, but I could be wrong.
3) so if she was adopted, then I think her idea of family is the shallow(?) superficial idea of people being together and therefore happy. but the way she is trying to keep my sis and i at home is breaking us apart imho. my sis said that one of her friend said that she's happier after moving out and I feel glad for my sis.
4) lmao she wants transparency at home but I'm not gonna tell her my change in religion viewpoint right away. like I don't think she understands what it means to be open and telling to another person about things. Like you know, not being judgmental and thumping your bible when sometimes people just aren't looking for advise but safe space to spill things.
5) im pretty sure i ask this before but Idk how to answer when she ask for proof that im gay. but it's just one of those redundant things that gets redundandandandandant.
6) IDK why she even ask if i talk to friends or my sis about this, but it's this archaic view that the friends you have must only be the same as her view or they're responsible for giving you bad influence or something. like wtf?
7) i thikn i heard her saying something about like if (new?) church and counselor cant help her accept that im gay (?), then she'll just keep on praying. well, this is brokenly eavesdropping so i cant confirm this one. But Im ppreettty sure she told at least one person

I'M SORRY TO EVERyonE WHO READ THIS

[MikeW]

...I'M SORRY TO EVERyonE WHO READ THIS

Ehh... don't be sorry. You're writing this stuff cuz you need to.

As for $$ I still think you need to get here even if it costs you nearly your last $. Hell, you can get a Greyhound roundtrip ticket for not much over $300. You might look into Amtrak, too. Both are cheaper than flying. Sometimes you just have to go WAY outside your comfort zone to get a new perspective on your life. Besides, have you thought of applying for jobs in the Bay Area??? I know nothing of your field but I bet there are some big companies here.

Ok, I'm not going to bug you about this cuz it is your decision but the offer still stands and I'll hold it open for the foreseeable future. Just think about it. And if you're worried about me, I can give you references (seriously). I'm about as harmless as humans get.

[LeafBlade]

Ehh... don't be sorry. You're writing this stuff cuz you need to.

As for $$ I still think you need to get here even if it costs you nearly your last $. Hell, you can get a Greyhound roundtrip ticket for not much over $300. You might look into Amtrak, too. Both are cheaper than flying. Sometimes you just have to go WAY outside your comfort zone to get a new perspective on your life. Besides, have you thought of applying for jobs in the Bay Area??? I know nothing of your field but I bet there are some big companies here.

Ok, I'm not going to bug you about this cuz it is your decision but the offer still stands and I'll hold it open for the foreseeable future. Just think about it. And if you're worried about me, I can give you references (seriously). I'm about as harmless as humans get.

nah, maybe some day i'll just visit california area.

well i just graduated so im basically trying to stay in houston, bc if push comes to shove i could sleep in my sister's place.

also i lack experiences in general so I have to throw lots of resume out there to land a job hahahahahahaah.

ahahahaahaahahahaha

ahahahahahahahaha

and no i'm not worried about you.

[MikeW]

nah, maybe some day i'll just visit california area.

well i just graduated so im basically trying to stay in houston, bc if push comes to shove i could sleep in my sister's place.

also i lack experiences in general so I have to throw lots of resume out there to land a job hahahahahahaah.

ahahahaahaahahahaha

ahahahahahahahaha

and no i'm not worried about you.

Glad to hear that

You still need to get away though. Imagine how much more mental room you'd have to think about YOUR life if you weren't alway thinking about your mom's nuttiness?

California is a big place. The Bay Area is amazing. Expensive but amazing. Once you got used to it you'd probably have a blast!

[LeafBlade]

ok, journal time again. there's a lot of parts that i kind of forget... im sorry if some parts got repeat

she basically talked about me, my sis, me being gay, and sis moving out again. emphasis is basically rehash and about how im choosing to be gay, emphasis on family with my sister's moving out and stuff. WELP.

1) ok so she knows that i eavesdropped, oops.

2) she basically just compared being gay to alcoholism, gambling, drugs, smoking, and maybe even going through cancer too. UGH. She was basically saying like how I have a choice to live a right/proper/happy life/ she ask me if i was proud to be gay and i said yeah. then she's like how knowledge i am in like, knowing that there's LGBT accepting churches and born gay. THEN SHE WAS ASKING FOR PROOF!?!? then i was like, why would I or anyone choose to be hated. then i forget how that went

also she said she's feeling really hurt that I am gay. O_O and she'll be more hurt if i have std and stuff. O_O
well, i havent told her how im hurt by her reaction.

also one of her fav thing to do is cite things from her friends/acquaintance/gossip(?) example. this time was someone who was a smoker and had to sell a house while continue smoking... um ok.

3) before I talk about sis, she's saying how past few months she's a stranger to my sis and I because she don't know about us. i don't think i said anything to this.

4) then she was trying to get in my room to talk (my room is by front door hallway) and i block it. she was asking why and I just said that she's repeating things she said last time. and I was like it's enough. which i think she's also a bit hurt by then but apparently she's mom and she can talk/lecture however long she wants? then she said something and then something about if i need help or someone to talk to in the future i could find her. I think her idea of help is that basically her idea is right and mine is wrong??

5) so, sister thing again. once again she said that I will regret for creating conflict between her and sis. and then goes on to say how like we dont have grandparents and extended family but only 3 of us to depend on. (yeah, but still dont mean you can treat us without empathy). and then she's basically saying how she dont know what kind of friends my sis has and if they'll help her in times of need... and she'll be lonely and stuff. (ok, so thinking negatively of my sis?)

6) car again about how im not signing, and then listing stuff like insurance that she paid for past 4 years and how i should pay for my own once i get a FT job. then was about how if i pay for own insurance without linking to mom it would be expensive. and how one of her friend won't let his daughter drive a car because insurance is expensive. this is a load of money talk tbh. she talks about money a lot tbh even though I remember one time long ago she said that it isn't about money but it definitely is.

7) car another part. she was talking about how like she dont know how well the echo im currently driving will do when and if i get a FT job and i will have to drive long distance. she's saying how like that car will get into an accident and i cant bus to new work job. how the car is slow or something and cause an accident on the road. then she's saying about buying smart and safe, like in the car's case it's safety, and what's my plan if the car im using gone bad and cannot be resold for at least some money. then she cited how one of her friend bought a second hand house and have to spend money to buy new AC, washer, dryer, and whatever idr.

also she's hurt because I don't want to co sign the car with her. Apparently her hurt is more important than the stuff she said that hurts me but whatever. and her idea of family unity seems to be just doing whatever she likes and shooting us down for things we want to do, like moving out and not sharing financial burden. and um...

8) she ask again if me changing my name during citizenship has to do with my dad or divorce. I was saying how I don't even know him well to hate him, because she thinks I hate him..... >_> then she said how I as a kid I wanted to be a dad. first i said that everyone's dream change from their childhood. then I was like, i can adopt as a gay person too. and then she's like how she thinks that i just pick a random name that's not the english name my parents gave me (which is somewhat associated with my dad's english name.) I don't think I commented on that.


9) oh i was wearing this shirt.. americal eagle? aeropostale? I dont know the brand? but it says like man from nantiucket or whatever. then she's like pressing and asking where I got the shirt. I was like, either one of you (her or sis) gave it to me because I forget either. she prob thinks that I had a bf or fucked a dude and got the shirt. ok honestly, maybe she's jsut being emotional and finding things to guilt me.

at the end, SHE SAID something about UNCONDITIONAL LOVE..... I just... internal facepalm because I don't think it means what she think it means. because she is clearly trying to frame me as the one for causing tension with her and sis when I DID NOT DO THAT. I merely just become open and open-minded talking with sis without trying to judge or persuade another person's opinion (unlike mom). and she's trying to talk me into going straight with her "choice" argument and "way of life" argument.

im tired.
there might be some bad memory or mis-remember stuff. but this is today.
im sorry if this is redundant and minimal effort at talking with her. but at least she wasn't sitting on my bed or my chair and saying all the fucks she want to say while making me look like the bad person for being myself.

[LJay]

Yow!

Leafblade, you are going through what every young person goes through with extra doses of your Mom being insecure and fearful that she will lose contact with her children and a lot of Asian tradition thrown in. You Mom isn't saying it right out loud, but she seems to act like she is being deserted. If your sister has moved out and you get your own place (which you should) then your Mom will be alone and without the traditional kind of support an older Asian person has been brought up to think is the way of things.

You need to stand firm and to establish your own life and identity, but you also need to help your mother to understand that having her children grow up is not a bad thing. Maybe you and your sister could make it a point to do some special things with and for her. It will be hard because she will complain and act out her anxiety, but eventually it may sink in. Of course she goes to her friends to gossip and whine, but she also, like every mother, wants to be able to talk about the things that her children do for her and that make her happy. Give her some. Maybe taking her out for a special meal or setting aside an evening to do something together or helping with difficult tasks. Show her AND tell her you care, even if it is hard for her. She will still complain and she will still think that you being gay is wrong but, like all mothers, she will think about the good things you do for her with pride.

It must be very hard for younger folks with strong family traditions to establish themselves. I have known some and they were certainly not all Asian. Good luck. As difficult as she may be, your Mom is still your Mom.

[LeafBlade]

ok so nothing much on gay thing lately.besides i just went to chinatown with mom and she picked up those chinese christian newspaper thing that the cover is basically about SCOTUS ruling that idc what's on there.

so... i dont think she took no on the car thing.
if i understand correctly, she still wants my student discount on the car, which is like $750 off, but i don't want to sign for loan. i mean i still have to sign that im student or something like that? does toyota works like this?

also im really hating this point in my life right now. trying to find job is hard, and trying to save money is and do things on my own is even hard. i still need to brush up my finance skills, and i feel like my understanding and approach to finance clash with mom. like she really is the kind who joins the majority of americans who do payment to payment. I'm basically trying to mirror my life to the reddit personalfinance/financialindepence subs where you pay off loan/credit quickly so that you don't lose money in interest and also save money. and when i try to argue other ways she try to shut me down D:

oh she also say how she can't handle guys who wear pink or have pink things like the shower soap box thingy. I don't want to deal with nonsensical sexism with color anymore. ugh.