Dates? Friendzones? I have so many first-world problems.

[Kenny221]

Hey guys. I might need a little help, or just someone to talk to. And it's much easier to tell my deepest darkest( alright, it's not dark) issues with virtual strangers than to my closest friends. And heres a warning, alot of these issues may sound stupid to you. Not going to lie, it sounds stupid to me too, logically anyways, emotionally i'm just a wreck. I'm terrified of dates. I hate it. Don't get me wrong, I'm usually pretty outgoing. it's because I hate that two people are meeting up specifically to see if they're compatible. Yeah some people just calling it 'hanging out' but come on, you must know. I need them to be my friends first , and when others asks me on a date online, I get flakey. I guess im one of those 'time-wasters'

I'm not sure if this stems from my really bad first date experience, but basically what happened was that the guy held my hand and tried to kiss me on the first date and I panicked. I'm not sure if I'm weird or messed up for panicking but I did and I was stupid enough to not tell him that I was not comfortable and spent 2 hours watching John Wick while being completely uncomfortable and freaking out for no reason. Long story short, I decline the second date and explained to him what happened. I felt so horrible because it seemed like he really liked me but I on the other hand didn't and probably made it worse since I didn't tell him i was uncomfortable.

I mean I went on a couple more dates with other people afterwards, and they didn't turn out so bad, it was just mostly lack of chemistry or conflict in personality. However I'm frustrated because even if I find someone physically attractive, I really don't wanna 'date' them. I wanna be friends first. Actual friends. And it seems so stupid because that's pretty much impossible because a) it's online dating b) people think it's friendzone C) No guy wants to invest that much time in just one of MANY potential dates.

I despise the word friendzone because I always feel like it's important in a relationship. and I know what you guys will say, 'but Kenny! You haven't even experienced anything yet! You should get out there and try! Stop having this stupid idealization of relationships!". Well sir, I can't help it. I'm comfortable with what I'm comfortable with. But then again, that's what leaving me in this mess.....This mess of being scared of dates. This mess of not being able to have one night stands. This giant pile of mess of emotions that doesn't even make sense. I'm not even looking for actual advices,you know? Sometimes I just need to publicly announce to the world why I'm single and why I probably deserve it. Because I'm a hopeless romantic with somewhat weird intimate-commitment issues that I don't even know where it comes from. Yay. Best combo ever. talk about guys with 'baggage' huh

#firstworldgayproblems

[SilverBullet]

usually when faced with a tough problem I try to tell myself its the opposite of what it is IE if I am getting out of my truck alone in the middle of the night, I tell myself im the biggest baddest thing in the woods over and over. If I need courage to talk to people I tell myself I am the greatest thing since sliced bread, they would be honored for my presence! I think its called psyching ones self out but its a method I use to deal with hard times and it helps a bit. Perhaps tell yourself you arent going on a date that its just friends, I dunno what your comfort zone is but to place yourself there and build up confidence/security, works so so for me, usually long enough to get me over hard times.

anyways, the next date you go on with your guy. remember its only "hanging out" with your "friend"

[MikeW]

...I know what you guys will say, 'but Kenny! You haven't even experienced anything yet! You should get out there and try! Stop having this stupid idealization of relationships!". Well sir, I can't help it. I'm comfortable with what I'm comfortable with. But then again, that's what leaving me in this mess.....This mess of being scared of dates. This mess of not being able to have one night stands. This giant pile of mess of emotions that doesn't even make sense. I'm not even looking for actual advices,you know? Sometimes I just need to publicly announce to the world why I'm single and why I probably deserve it. Because I'm a hopeless romantic with somewhat weird intimate-commitment issues that I don't even know where it comes from. Yay. Best combo ever. talk about guys with 'baggage' huh

On one hand I want to thank you for your honesty. You're really putting it all out there, your frustration and your feelings of being totally stuck in regard to who you are and where you are. On the other hand, what I see is you're continuously re-enforing your own negative programming inside yourself and probably making yourself feel worse and more stuck than you actually are. To a very large extent, what we "think" is 'so', becomes 'so'.

Now there are two ways to play this, Kenny. Either you ACCEPT that you are everything you've said, the whole kit and caboodle, and BE HAPPY with yourself, with all that you are... OR... you continue to feel MISERABLE because you aren't letting yourself have what you really want. It's kind of a question, really: What do you REALLY want?

Do you want to remain miserable, frustrated and scared? (I'm assuming these adjectives are more or less accurate descriptions of how you feel. Correct me if I'm wrong.) If not then there are three things you MUST (IMO) do: First you have to find out what your actual limits are; Second, you have to ACCEPT your actual limits, which means feeling FINE with them and about them. Finally, third, you have to work at CHANGING those things that you currently 'think' are your limits, but are actually just self-imposed limitations, not ACTUAL limits.

Does any of that make sense?

I'm going to add that you are only 19 years old. You're still "becoming" an adult. (I think most guys don't really become full-on adults until around age 25. There are exceptions, some do so sooner, some later.) Which means two things in my mind: First you have time to work out these issues for yourself. There's no point in thinking about getting into a serious 1-on, capital "R", Relationship in the immediate future. It isn't going to happen or, even if it did, it likely wouldn't last because you really aren't yet READY for one.

If I'm right about that, to me, THAT should be the first thing you *accept* and feel FINE about! Yeah, sure you WANT a relationship; we all want to love and be loved, to have someone we desire physically and emotionally, and to be desired by someone else physically and emotionally. And sometimes that happens to guys even as teenagers. However, that is rare, and it is even more rare for those adolescent adventures to turn into long-term, committed relationships. I feel confidant that that is a fact.

So, imagine for a moment, that you simply accept that, for right now at least, you ARE where you are. You're lonely and horny and would very much like for something else to be going on but it isn't and that's OK. It just is what it is, and that's fine.

So... can you imagine feeling THAT way about it? Accepting it for what it is? ... a kind of post adolescent ennui? That may not be exactly the right word but I bet it is close.

Can you stop telling yourself "I'm this," and "I'm that," "I'm a mess, a shit load of baggage, undesirable, and no one is going to want to be with me."? (Or whatever NEGATIVE self-talk is going on inside your head.) Seriously, in MY book, the very first thing you CAN do is learn to STOP telling yourself all this shit. Pay attention to when it happens inside your head... how you begin to feel stressed out about something, like going on a date or what ever, and then the negative nannies start filling your head telling you how fucked up you are. PRACTICE stopping those thoughts when they arise. Just tell them to shut the fuck up. They are NOT helping! They're just making your life more difficult... and they are preventing you from simply accepting, "I'M OK JUST AS I AM RIGHT NOW, NOTHING MORE NEEDS TO CHANGE RIGHT NOW OTHER THAN MY BEING SO NEGATIVE ABOUT MYSELF AND MY LIFE."

Seriously, right now is the perfect age to get OUT of the habit of doing this to yourself. And I caution you (as someone who lived through this) that IF YOU PERSIST on rehearsing, retelling, re-enforcing this "script" of negativity in your head, THE OLDER YOU GET THE MORE DIFFICULT IT WILL BE TO LEARN TO STOP IT.

Seriously yet again, you need to learn to control your thoughts. If you have to start practicing meditation every day to do this, then do it. (Ask me and I'll tell you how privately.) If you feel you need SUPPORT to deal with the deeper issues that are driving this negative self-talk, then seek it out, either professionally or right here on this forum or where ever you can find it.

What I'm really on about here is that it is my belief that NO ONE needs to live a "miserable fucked-up" life, not inside their head. I think most people have the capacity to change that negativity. And, in my experience, the first step is to accept that what is, is what is, and it is OK just as it is. I know, that SOUNDS like it means giving up, giving in, letting the negative nannies "win"... but that isn't exactly it. Acceptance means stepping outside the not-so-merry-go-round inside your head. It means entertaining emotions that are OTHER THAN frustration and misery. Acceptance BREAKS the cycle. It frees us TO MOVE ON.

Again, does any of this make any sense to you at all??

You're ok. There's NOTHING wrong with you! You're experiencing the kind of angst that a lot of young men go through... whether they're gay or straight. It's actually fairly full-on "normal". Yeah, for sure, not everyone goes though it or goes through it in the same way or about the same issues, but most guys DO go through it one way or another. So, can you just accept that? That Kenny is actually just fine, ok the way he is? Lonely, yeah? Wishing he had someone to play with and love? Sure. But THAT isn't THE problem. The problem is fighting it in a wrong-headed, negative nanny way as if it OUGHT to just be different or other than it is.

Take a deep breath. Lots of them. Relax. Enjoy your life. Have fun with the friends you do have. Don't worry about DATING at all. If someone comes along that you meet and there's some attraction, well, just feel your way into and through that. No pushing, no big deal. It either moves or it doesn't and either way is fine. << SEE, that kind of thinking is totally different than telling yourself how fucked up you are. Can you dig that?

I'm going to stop cuz I've already probably written way to much but, seriously, just at least give this a tiny bit of space in yourself as a possibility. If you want to work further on it, just hit me up. If not, that's fine. You tell me how you want your life to be and how you're going to get there from where you are now.

[Emiliano]

I think MikeW gave some good perspective.

The only thing I'd suggest is when you are first talking to a guy, invite him to go out with you and your friends. That might take off some of the pressure of the one-on-one, and lets you have people around you who hopefully keep you comfortable. Your friends will contribute to the conversation and maybe that will help reveal things you all have in common that will help build a friendship. Later on, invite him and his friends out too.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to build a friendship before anything romantic. And theres nothing wrong with not be comfortable with or not wanting one night stands. But you should try your best to communicate that, so that you can both be on the same page. And if you are uncomfortable, you really need to express it. It doesnt have to be a big thing where you tell your life story, just say something like, it's nice you wanted to kiss me, but I'm not ready for that yet.

[matty7]

you've got 19 years of life experiences and personal relationships built up making you the person you are today - its going to be difficult to change the romantic that you are in a short space of time so you need to find a work around that doesn't freak you out when someone tries to get though that Kenny force field you put up - im sure others like Mike above will help more with that though - the next time someone asks you out on a date you could simple tell them you like meet as friends to start with - if they agree to that then hopefully they are not just trying to jump into bed without hardly knowing you...

[Kenny221]

Can you stop telling yourself "I'm this," and "I'm that," "I'm a mess, a shit load of baggage, undesirable, and no one is going to want to be with me."? (Or whatever NEGATIVE self-talk is going on inside your head.) Seriously, in MY book, the very first thing you CAN do is learn to STOP telling yourself all this shit. Pay attention to when it happens inside your head... how you begin to feel stressed out about something, like going on a date or what ever, and then the negative nannies start filling your head telling you how fucked up you are. PRACTICE stopping those thoughts when they arise. Just tell them to shut the fuck up. They are NOT helping! They're just making your life more difficult... and they are preventing you from simply accepting, "I'M OK JUST AS I AM RIGHT NOW, NOTHING MORE NEEDS TO CHANGE RIGHT NOW OTHER THAN MY BEING SO NEGATIVE ABOUT MYSELF AND MY LIFE."

Seriously, right now is the perfect age to get OUT of the habit of doing this to yourself. And I caution you (as someone who lived through this) that IF YOU PERSIST on rehearsing, retelling, re-enforcing this "script" of negativity in your head, THE OLDER YOU GET THE MORE DIFFICULT IT WILL BE TO LEARN TO STOP IT.

Seriously yet again, you need to learn to control your thoughts. If you have to start practicing meditation every day to do this, then do it. (Ask me and I'll tell you how privately.) If you feel you need SUPPORT to deal with the deeper issues that are driving this negative self-talk, then seek it out, either professionally or right here on this forum or where ever you can find it.

What I'm really on about here is that it is my belief that NO ONE needs to live a "miserable fucked-up" life, not inside their head. I think most people have the capacity to change that negativity. And, in my experience, the first step is to accept that what is, is what is, and it is OK just as it is. I know, that SOUNDS like it means giving up, giving in, letting the negative nannies "win"... but that isn't exactly it. Acceptance means stepping outside the not-so-merry-go-round inside your head. It means entertaining emotions that are OTHER THAN frustration and misery. Acceptance BREAKS the cycle. It frees us TO MOVE ON.

Again, does any of this make any sense to you at all??

You're ok. There's NOTHING wrong with you! You're experiencing the kind of angst that a lot of young men go through... whether they're gay or straight. It's actually fairly full-on "normal". Yeah, for sure, not everyone goes though it or goes through it in the same way or about the same issues, but most guys DO go through it one way or another. So, can you just accept that? That Kenny is actually just fine, ok the way he is? Lonely, yeah? Wishing he had someone to play with and love? Sure. But THAT isn't THE problem. The problem is fighting it in a wrong-headed, negative nanny way as if it OUGHT to just be different or other than it is.

You're right Mike. I guess that I've been in these thoughts for so long that I forgot what it was. Just thoughts, just negative thoughts and I've allowed them to slowly become my reality. I forgot that' there's other things too. I forgot that what I turned out to be is what I'm suppose to be. and I should embrace that. I've fallen into false dichotomy, that I'm either this or I'm that, forgetting that life offers so much more than just those two... I spend as much time inside my head as I am going out, and it's not healthy that I'm being unhealthy inside my head. Maybe Im being too hard on myself for being....me.

[Camfer]

(waiting for [MENTION=18508]East[/MENTION] to chime in and say he'd never date someone until after they'd had sex

[MikeW]

You're right Mike. I guess that I've been in these thoughts for so long that I forgot what it was. Just thoughts, just negative thoughts and I've allowed them to slowly become my reality. I forgot that' there's other things too. I forgot that what I turned out to be is what I'm suppose to be. and I should embrace that. I've fallen into false dichotomy, that I'm either this or I'm that, forgetting that life offers so much more than just those two... I spend as much time inside my head as I am going out, and it's not healthy that I'm being unhealthy inside my head. Maybe Im being too hard on myself for being....me.

Yay! I'm glad you at least understand what I'm talking about.

I don't know you, Kenny, but so far as I can tell, there is NOTHING WRONG with you! Yeah, well, no, you're not perfect or god's gift to human kind or WTFE, but that is irrelevant. We're ALL messed up one way or another.... The question is, can we recognize what we can't change, embrace it and accept it, even have fun with it, while changing whatever we can and want to change about ourselves?

I'm an old man but by damn I'm not unhappy despite any number of things I could focus on as being "wrong" with me. Trust me, there are 100s if not 1000s of things "wrong" with me. Instead, I choose to focus on what makes me happy... at least a good share of the time. No, it doesn't always work, and, no I don't have everything I'd like to have BUT, you know what, mostly I'm ok with that! I have a lot and so the problems all have to get put in their rightful perspective. Yeah, they need some attention but it shouldn't CONSUME my life.

Right?

Let us know if we can be of help.