Is Gayspeak Really A Safe Place?

[Pyromancer]

Reading the quote from [MENTION=24108]Doc[/MENTION] about the Pentagon allowing a soldier to march in Pride:

QUOTE: Just terrible to bring discredit on the uniform, lets just dismantle the last bastion of decency in this country. My heart breaks to hear this. It is the Air Force which is generally a faggoty, feminine branch anyway.

In my opinion, this is gay bashing.

While I think I understand the intense self-loathing that would make an allegedly gay man lash out this way, it frightens me to see it here.

And if it frightens me, how would a newcomer react? Someone just coming out, unsure and looking for support?

We say that we're a safe place to ask questions, chat, get honest and helpful feedback.

It doesn't feel safe to me anymore.

[sillyboy86]

I'm sorry, but I my case I don't let a single post on thousand and thousand to change my opinion about this forum, also cause everyone still have his opinion.
I remember that a lot of time ago I uses to disagree with a guy here, for his right-wing opinions about many things, while I consider myself a person of the left-wing. But I was not affected by his words, it was just a different point of view.
I hope you'll stay here, anyway.

[Cridders88]

Yeah, I'd say it is. There may be one or two oddballs here and there but they stick out like sore thumbs and are easily ignored.

[Doc]

[MENTION=24520]Pyromancer[/MENTION] Its not self loathing, its hard experience.

First this guy isnt a soldier, he's an airman there a big difference I was a soldier and I actually fought in the war, you know saw the enemy and was nearly killed. His pog ass probably sat in an air condition building on a FOB and drank coffee. Second he isnt doing this for any good reason he just wants attention, (look at me look at me). Third he's a reservist, which means he doesn't live in the military so it doesn't matter to him what the consequences of his actions are, he'll never have to deal with them. Its gonna be the poor gay men on active duty that are punished for his good time.

The military is a much different culture than the civilian world and it doesn't like change. When I was in the Army I was part of our brigade rape prevention and crisis team, while I was part of that team we dealt with 3 rapes, all of the victims were men. These rapes followed the repeal of DADT and they were reprisals by those angry at the new policy. Soldiers that were suspected of being gay were targeted for corrective rapes that included savage beatings and other unmentionable's such ass broom sticks up the ass. If they thought you were gay they might vandalize your car or break into your barracks room and sack it.

At this time I was very afraid because there had always been whispers and suspicion concerning my sexual orientation, luckily for me I was a very popular soldier in my squadron and I had alot of friends.

This asshole is just an attention seeking reservist, who is selfishly putting others at risk for the sake of showing off.

So maybe check yourself before you judge, when you dont really understand the situation that you're talking about.


[MENTION=22727]Cridders88[/MENTION] I thought better of you, than to so quickly judge someone an oddball

[Pyromancer]

OK, you've convinced me that I made a mistake coming back here.

I won't be posting again.

[Cardiganwearer]

The military is a much different culture than the civilian world and it doesn't like change. When I was in the Army I was part of our brigade rape prevention and crisis team, while I was part of that team we dealt with 3 rapes, all of the victims were men. These rapes followed the repeal of DADT and they were reprisals by those angry at the new policy. Soldiers that were suspected of being gay were targeted for corrective rapes that included savage beatings and other unmentionable's such ass broom sticks up the ass. If they thought you were gay they might vandalize your car or break into your barracks room and sack it.

Corrective rapes are rapes, there is no excuse for them. If your military culture is such that it approves of rape it needs changing. In your response to the other thread you said,

Had a guy pulled a stunt like this in my unit, I'd have beat him to within an inch of his life.

So you're presumably comfortable with violence and rape within the military. It may have been a different culture when you were in it (if indeed you ever were) but it would appear to have changed now. Your inability to handle that is your problem. I get the impression you are no longer in the military. Did you leave or were you thrown out? Either way you need to move on.

Being gay is not a choice but I sometimes wish it were, we could throw you out, or perhaps administer a "corrective rape". You are a shitstain on a fine body of men and the nation they represent.

[Camfer]

I am not really familiar with the term "safe space," so that's hard to answer, but yeah I feel like I can speak my mind here, and I do.

What I see is two people speaking their minds. [MENTION=24520]Pyromancer[/MENTION] challenged what [MENTION=24108]Doc[/MENTION] said, and Doc challenged what Pyromancer said. That to me is an even playing field where each party was able to express himself.

Doc attacked no one who is actually on here, but Pyromancer called Doc, who is on here, "self-loathing" and "allegedly gay."

So, maybe upon reflection Pyromancer can see that he could have been more careful to address the topic instead of going ad hominem while at the very same time questioning if this is a "safe space." From here, it looks like a case of a strong reaction.

And Doc, maybe you can understand how some people here don't really appreciate it when you call a branch of the armed services "faggoty, feminine." I question the need to insult the Air Force, but if you do want to do it, maybe a different choice of words would work better with this crowd. The use of sexist and homophobic language, while colorful, is a turn-off for many.

Hope you both stick around! I value both of you being on here.

[Matt608]

You've got to be fucking kidding me. Calling other gays "faggoty and feminine" in ANY context is just plain wrong. The fact that anyone here would consider it an "opinion" rather than the abuse that it is tells me all I need to know.

I'm with [MENTION=24520]Pyromancer[/MENTION]. I won't be back to this site again either.

[MikeW]

OK, you've convinced me that I made a mistake coming back here.

I won't be posting again.

My question is, how does [MENTION=24108]Doc[/MENTION]'s posts (that quoted and his reply) contribute to your not feeling safe as a member of this forum? I hear that it does, but I'm not hearing how so or why.

To me strongly held opinions and expressions of those opinions say something about the person holding and expressing them. The question is, what?

The world around us is rich with complexities. It isn't an ideal world, one that fits exactly our "ideal" of how the world "ought" to be for us to feel safe, comfortable and truly ourselves. Each of us have come here from our own life path, the chain of events and experiences that make up our lives, attitudes, and understanding. Each us has a unique personality with its own strengths and weaknesses.

The question for any forum is, to what extent can we learn to understand one another? Sometimes, this requires our getting a bit beyond our comfort zone; being willing to listen to and try to understand the other person's POV, even if we don't (at least initially) understand it. IMO, so long as we are respectful of each other that possibility exists, even if we aren't able to fully grasp "where" the other person is coming from or "why" they hold the opinion they do.

Bottom line, someone else's opinion is just that: Their opinion. I accept that it is based on their life experience which may be very different from my own. We do not have to "agree." We don't even have to understand each other. But if we can address one another respectfully, then at least we can agree to disagree.

In this case, I see that Doc's statement is disturbing to you. He is expressing a lot of judgement and resentment toward someone I assume neither of you know personally. How is it this leaves you feeling vulnerable and not safe? If his comments were directed at you, if they were in some way personal attacks (which I've experienced here, although not from Doc), I could understand your concern more clearly. As it is, although I'm not fond of Doc's "bashing" (and you're right, it is, because it is full of judgement and has an undercurrent of anger), I don't feel threatened by that. I accept that Doc's opinion is based on his experience of something I have not experienced and know very little about. I am curious to learn what motivates his position: How is it this news 'threatens' him in such a way that he feels the need to "bash" or express such a harsh attitude? What is it HE is trying to protect?

[Camfer]

You've got to be fucking kidding me. Calling other gays "faggoty and feminine" in ANY context is just plain wrong. The fact that anyone here would consider it an "opinion" rather than the abuse that it is tells me all I need to know.

I'm with [MENTION=24520]Pyromancer[/MENTION]. I won't be back to this site again either.

To be clear, no one called other gays faggoty and feminine. I would not find that acceptable had someone actually done it.