The catholic church

[marshlander]

Well, of course it is not viewed as a tax, it is a "voluntary contribution", although anyone who doesn't "volunteer" is pretty much damned.

Perhaps you might spare a thought for my dad. He has just decided that he can no longer accept the teachings of the LDS church and told his bishop on Sunday that he would not be attending church any more. He's having a tough time dealing with the realisation that there aren't the safe answers that he was hoping for ... and he's been thinking about the "voluntary contributions" he has paid in good faith since 1961.

[Rychard the Lionheart]

If only ...
Tithing = 10% of gross income (even on the kids' pocket money or on benefits)
Fast offering = the equivalent or more of what one would normally spend on two meals for the family once a month
Ward or Branch budget = an amount determined by negotiation
Missionary fund = what you can afford to offer (not "compulsory" unless one has children on a mission when the amount depends on the cost of living in the country to which they have been sent)
Any other special appeals for more money as deemed appropriate.

Does the UTAH STATE religion have a team of accountants which take on the task of checking each member's personal finances? I thought our government were good at ripping us off but the UTAH STATE religion have got it down to a fine art. Even the mafia would be envious of the church's greed for money. :mad:

[fredv3b]

I thought that paying protection money to another person or organisation was illegal in the USA, also only the government could extract taxes from the people. Or am I in error here?

Only asking money for protection in this life.

[marshlander]

Does the UTAH STATE religion have a team of accountants which take on the task of checking each member's personal finances? I thought our government were good at ripping us off but the UTAH STATE religion have got it down to a fine art. Even the mafia would be envious of the church's greed for money. :mad:

No, not as it is operated in this country. I think that things may be different in Utah where some potential employers have even been known to ask to see a temple recommend (the eligability to attend the temple is deemed proof of being a good Mormon. My lack of such a document is why I was not able to attend the wedding of my son [even though I travelled to Utah to be there] a few years ago) before offering a candidate a job. It's not beyond imagining that some financial information can somehow find its way into a local Bishop's hands - but maybe I'm just being paranoid! Every December/January local bishops hold what is called a "tithing settlement" with every member. This is where the bishop directly asks whether that member has paid a true and honest tithe (i.e. a full 10%). Some members find it hard to pay tithing on their gross income and offer 10% of what's left after tax and other deductions. Many times I have heard someone ask if a member wants their blessings "gross or net". The pressure is enormous to conform, but they can only go so far ... in the UK anyway. On the other hand, just try asking the bishop for a proper set of church accounts in return during the tithing settlement. No one will ever see such a thing, because there is no such accounting procedure.

[Rychard the Lionheart]

I bet they would not let Jesus in unless he was a fully paid up member of the UTAH STATE religion.

[marshlander]

I've just read the news, although I daresay you all knew this already, that the Pope will preside over the beatification of Cardinal John Henry Newman (1801-1890) on Sunday 19th September, the last day of his controversial visit to the UK. According to that authoritative source, Wikipedia ,

The sexuality of Newman and his circle has long been a subject for conjecture. Much of the evidence is ambiguous.

Whether Cardinal Newman "practised" or not he was reported as being very feminine and lived with Ambrose St John as his companion for 32 years. So upset was he at his death of his dear friend that the good cardinal said

"I wish, with all my heart, to be buried in Fr Ambrose St John's grave — and I give this as my last, my imperative will", he wrote, later adding: "This I confirm and insist on."

Moving and sad as this all is I wonder how many other "intrinsically disordered" saints there are? John Henry Newman would have been unlikely to survive the gay witchhunt of the present pope had he been living in these times. I assume that Herr Ratzinger's address to the faithful will make no mention of Cardinal Newman's sexuality.

[fredv3b]

Will he explain why the church is violating the Cardinal's last and and imperative will?

[AgentWashington]

Perhaps you might spare a thought for my dad. He has just decided that he can no longer accept the teachings of the LDS church...

Realizing you no longer believe what you've believed your entire life is definitely a terrifying concept.

In that, I can truly sympathize with gays and their fear of 'coming out'. I'll confess, there are still people in my life that are extremely dear to me that I've not confessed my change in beliefs to.

I wish all the best for your dad.

[marshlander]

Realizing you no longer believe what you've believed your entire life is definitely a terrifying concept.

In that, I can truly sympathize with gays and their fear of 'coming out'. I'll confess, there are still people in my life that are extremely dear to me that I've not confessed my change in beliefs to.

I wish all the best for your dad.

Thank you. I guess it was not something he was anticipating dealing with at the age of eighty-one. I feel that I have come out twice. The first time was when I could no longer believe LDS doctrine and had to face the grilling of family and church leaders. It took me another fifteen years to be able to start coming out as gay.