This is really long so I apologise but here goes...
Im a 21 year old guy. I'm in a pretty strange place in my life at the moment. Over the past year or so I have had somewhat of a realisation that my life and the way I feel a lot of the time seems to be pretty different to everyone I know.
From some of my earliest memories I can recall feelings of inadequacy and alienation with friendships, family and relationships. Without going into too much detail these feelings caused me to feel like quite an outsider and of the mindset that nobody was like me and I became extremely closed off about my feelings and emotions.
To cut a long story short, I met the most amazing friend about four years ago who seemed to be a virtual mirror image of myself and because of this, we became extremely close. He's been really the first person that I've ever shared any deep feelings with. Just over a year ago now, he got a girlfriend who he fell head over heels in love with quickly and like many people in similar situations, I was forced to take a back seat. As painful as that has been at times because of how we were before, that isn't really the main issue in this story.
What is bothering me is that lately whenever I come away from seeing him, despite us having great times together, I get really, really down. To a level where I just don't want to see anybody or do anything that I normally like doing for quite a while. It's really bothering me because I think that the way I feel is inappropriate and is causing me to question our friendship. I have been hurt in relationships in the past and that may be a part of these feelings, but for some reason when my friend mentions his girlfriend I can't hold back my anger and bitter resentment of his situation and sometimes snap at him, telling him to shut up about her. When I think of them together I sometimes feel a kind of sinking feeling in my heart and sometimes when I've been brooding over it a lot, when I go to sleep, I'll have dreams about my friend (but it's not anything sexual)
There is a lot more information that I could mention, but I'd like to get a few opinions on some questions that I have. Do I wish it was more than he sees it as? For example, am I romantically attracted to my friend but refusing to admit it or something? or have I become too co-dependent on this person because I finally felt that somebody liked me? I just don't know, but to clarify I am not sexually attracted to my friend at all.
I'd love to get some advice on this because at times, I feel that it's taking over my life. As silly as it sounds sometimes I'll think of something about their relationship and end up brooding over it all day. I recognise that this isn't a healthy thought pattern and would like to try and put it behind me and understand where these feelings are coming from. What's worse is my friend has really no idea about how I feel. We do speak about pretty much anything, but I feel that this is different and almost bordering on obsessive. I don't know if even he would understand what I was trying to explain to him. I posted this on another forum and somebody said that I was heart broken. I have been hurt by a girl in the past and I have to say these feelings that I have are very similar to that. I'd really appreciate some help.
Thanks
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Wow, it's like looking into a mirror. I have been going through more or less exactly the same thing. Seriously, every aspect of what you described is something I have been experiencing with my own best friend. I suspect that it has less to do with sexual attraction, and more to do with loneliness. We both have this one guy who we can be really open with, and when he goes off with his girlfriend, we have to revert back to either being alone for a while, or spending time with other people whom we have to be much more guarded around. I haven't entirely figured it out yet myself, but I suspect the key to overcoming the depression is to cultivate many deep friendships and stay really busy. It takes a strong will to accept the fact that having many friends will not affect your friendship with this one guy. Friendships don't dilute themselves the more friends you have. You can still be as close as you are, but you also deserve to be comfortable with more than one person, and you deserve to have friends to spend time with when he wants to be alone with his girlfriend. This fact swings both ways. The fact that he has a girlfriend doesn't affect how he values you as a friend. Most friendships last much longer than romantic relationships, and when the day comes when the two of them split up, it's you he's going to come running to for support.
On a side note, thank you for posting this. Responding to people with similar problems to myself helps me objectively sort out my own problems.
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Thankyou for that reply!! Isn't it a great feeling when you read something that really resonates with your own experiences.
I agree with loneliness is most likely the cause. I don't really have many friends and don't feel very close to my family. It's understandable that all of that pent up emotional energy could then be unleashed onto somebody you consider special and cause intense and confusing feelings. I also feel that my relationship with my friend is causing me to not give others a chance, as I always jump to conclusions and think they won't be like him and distance myself.
There is a bit of another element to it that intensifies those feelings. When us guys meet up we often drink quite a bit of alcohol and have a good time chilling out and catching up. The thing is that as we get progressively more drunk (although it doesn't happen so much now he has a girlfriend) we can get pretty touchy with each other, with him actually being more forward than me in the past. We also almost kissed each other once, but neither of us dared to make a move, but neither backed down so I think it was pretty obvious that both of us wanted to experience it. However when i've mentioned it briefly, he blames it on being 'so drunk' and seems to dismiss the idea. However when we're sober and I say lean my arm on his shoulder when were sitting (just in a friendly way) I get the feeling that he doesn't like it or it makes him uncomfortable or something. I think that the alcohol might lower his inhibitions and reveal some of his true feelings that he feels he can't deal with sober. Who knows?
It's hard to explain but what's strange is that when this used to happen before he was in a relationship, I wasn't really bothered, which was the time that something would have been most likely to happen. But now he's unattainable, I feel like I do want to explore those feelings. That's the most confusing part because surely if I was sexually attracted I would have taken the chance when I perhaps could have.
Which leads me to ponder whether I am attracted to him or is it just like you said a combination of loneliness and thinking that I want something that I can't have. Sorry for the length of this, a lot of it is probably pretty irrelevant but I wanted to share it. Plus I think it's a part of the story that needs mentioning. Thanks musicman!
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Yes, the element I left out of my side of the story is that I am very much attracted to my friend. I have always felt like he was unattainable because he is straight and in a relationship. I still think it has more to do with loneliness than sex. Just having someone to share our thoughts and feelings with after so long of being loners is a serious release for us. I would say that if you have to wonder if you are attracted to him, it's probably either not the case or the attraction is so limited that it can't possibly be the cause of your problems. For me, I always thought that because I was attracted to my friend, that was the reason I was always depressed when we parted ways. I don't think this has as much to do with it now as I once did.
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That's so reassuring to hear because it's such a confusing feeling to have. I feel you're absolutely right. I think that sense of loneliness can run so deep that when you do meet somebody to release those emotions with, it can cause some physical attraction, that is perhaps not real. Thats further backed up by the fact that when I think of him, I never think of anything sexual.
The last part you said was actually very interesting because I have been feeling the same thing and have at times seriously considered cutting ties with this person because I felt like this was getting me down so much. From your experiences, would you recommend against that? As you said you don't think that was the case in the end, with your friend. Thanks
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No, I don't think cutting ties is a good idea. First of all, it's not fair to him. He values your friendship as much as you value his. Also, it's not a romantic relationship, so you can't exactly break up. He has been a great friend to you, so breaking it off would achieve nothing. What I think you should do is cultivate other friendships so that you aren't so dependent on just him. And because this is just a friendship you two have, you can do this guilt free. Keep your friends close, and your other friends close as well.
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Hello, Angus, and  to GaySpeak. I understand that you are just curious to how gay men's minds and hearts work.
As musicman said, I think what you are feeling has more to do with the intense sense of loneliness but also with jealousy (or possibly envy). While your attraction to your best friend may not be sexual, it certainly seems, to some extent, romantic... I'd say it's a platonic relationship.
What is interesting from your second post is that you mention how you once almost kissed but didn't dare, despite having drunk quite a bit, and the fact that usually it lets down your barriers and guards. My best friend has always maintained that drinking rather than changing your mood, really enhances it (so if you were, say, angry, you'd get angrier, and if you were sorry for yourself, you'd get sorrier, etc.). Here the story was probably that you were both in a romantic and totally connected mood, which might have led to a kiss.
A kiss can be sexual, but no necessarily. After all, don't we kiss our parents, our children and our siblings? It's a normal thing for people to kiss, and I guess American males miss that cultural heritage and behavioural aspect of kissing even their male friends. Some cultures allow and even encourage males kissing (maybe not on the mouth, but sometimes even on the mouth). It's a shame that Americans have lost that.
I think, Angus, that what is distressing you, apart from the sense of loss of something wonderful (which, as Musicman said, is probably not lost, just postponed) is also the fact that you can feel envious of that girl for having time with him, maybe more time with him than you'll ever get now that they are a couple. In a way, it's like a divorce, or a death and it'll take time for you to mourn the relationship that once was. Give yourself that time. Maybe it is time to expand your horizons and to meet new people.
You may find that you, as a person, are more open to exploring different types of relationships than your mate would allow himself. It can happen that two really close buddies do something sexual together and then decide that they're not going to pursue it. In the gay world, I often hear people talk of fuck buddies, ie people with whom they can enjoy sex but don't have a romantic relationship. I suppose it's a relationship of convenience. Rather have sex with someone you know and appreciate than go without, while you are waiting for a relationship to happen. It's a release for both, but it is a sort of in-between interaction.
You mentioned not being attracted to him physically and therefore not feeling the urge to have sex with him. That's fine. We are all at various places on 100% the Straight to 100% Gay spectrum. Maybe your position is slightly more centred than his.
But I also think you are trying to deal basically with two feelings that you detest, that of being more lonely and that of being jealous, because you understand that you can't really be jealous of a woman. She can't possibly take your place and you can't take hers.
Just to push the questioning further, would you, if he had been more forward, have accepted to do something of a sexual nature with him? I mean, maybe, just to experiment? Are you feeling that now that this woman is there to keep him in check, that possibility has now vanished for you and do you feel frustrated by that? Or can you definitely say that you wouldn't have pursued it or dared to do it because you normally have feelings or girls? Another question to you is, how come you are not pursuing a romantic (and sexual) relationship with a girl right now? Are your circumstances difficult? Have you still not recovered from the previous heartbreak?
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princealbertofb - wow that was a great reply! You've asked a lot of really interesting points that I often wonder myself and i'll try my best to answer your questions.
What I find frustrating is that when I meet up with him, we still have the most amazing times, but then I come away and I can't help feeling that there is still something different between us, which is that jealousy/envy point you made. It makes me feel bad because he really tries with me and has a lot of time for me, yet I still get those feelings which is my problem and not his. I agree that I can't be jealous of a woman and we can't take each others places... It's just very difficult to think rationally in an emotionally charged situation, however i've been trying to let things pass and i've found that it's actually not so bothersome.
I agree about that alcohol thing, that it seems to enhance mood rather than change it and honestly, I think that yes I would have done something like that with him. Whether or not I would change my mind once it happened I don't know. I guess now I do have a sense that the possibility of anything like that happening has past, but I think its a case that I want something because I can't have it, even though I don't really want it... how confusing. What makes me think that deep down that isn't what I really want though is I am not attracted to guys. I don't like my friends body or want to touch him in that kind of way or anything. I don't know exactly what to make of those past encounters but I believe that it may have just been my yearning for some kind of loving attention and the fact it was somebody of the same sex didn't matter.
You know... I am beginning to think that your points about my relationships with girls are the real core of this problem. I'd like to write some background on some things that happened to me, which I think will help you understand my mindset a little more.
I never really had girlfriends throughout school, I was really shy and didn't think they would like me. However eventually when I was about 15 there was a girl I really liked and I plucked up the courage to ask out, but unfortunately she denied which, of course, made me feel like crap. I continued to like her even though she got into a relationship which lasted quite a while.
She eventually broke up with this guy and sometime down the line, me and her ended up being at the same party together. I ended up kissing he and sleeping beside her although nothing sexual happened because others were around, just cuddling and so on. After that happened we started seeing each other quite regularly and began what was my first sexual relationship. But when I kept asking her if she'd go out with me she wouldn't and said that she didn't want another relationship so soon.
Looking back I was terribly naive and believed it was something it wasn't, but she was always so affectionate when we were together it was so confusing, I thought she was embarrassed to call me her boyfriend or something. Anyways to cut a long story shorter, I eventually found out that she had kissed a few other guys and who knows what else when she'd been to parties (should have seen that coming). I was absolutely crushed by what had happened, but the worst part was I was so infatuated with her that I continued to see her and just tried to put the other stuff out of my mind.
This went on for almost a year and it makes me feel weak and pathetic when I looked back, that I would be emotionally abused by her but keep going back. It felt like everybody was laughing at me behind my back. I was the joke but couldn't see it. We did eventually drift apart and then she got in an actual relationship with another guy, again adding to me feeling not good enough (why couldn't I be her boyfriend but this guy could?). It's clear that what happened to me was just a string of experiences that made me feel more worthless with each blow, which was then added onto similar feelings I had, that already existed.
The most annoying part is that consciously I am totally over it. I don't get anxious when I think about it or have any emotion when I think about her or what happened. But i've realised that I have been really damaged in that area subconsciously and I find that is unbelievably difficult to overcome.
It's been years since that happened, but today I just can't become interested in any girls. No matter who comes along, and some really attractive girls have, I just can't get interested and end up distancing myself from them and don't share anything. I haven't had actual sex with anybody since that and have no desire to. It feels as if my emotions in that area have just been totally severed. On top of that (even though I know its wrong) I get so annoyed by loved up couples and feel that being that way with somebody is such a weakness and that people who are like that are less than me. Ironic isn't it really considering my own past.
I guess that's just been my way of dealing with what happened to me and trying to convince myself that I don't need that kind of romantic attachment to a girl. I think that i've developed quite a superiority complex that has come about as a result of trying to compensate for my inferiority complex. But now I think that in denying any desires to be in a relationship, those trapped, strong emotions have been directed elsewhere, which is where my friend comes into the situation.
This has been extremely long haha. But actually, writing about it in this much detail has really helped me reflect on the situation. I've never really revisited the details of it so closely. I think that by informing you of that part of my life it could give you a better idea of the situation between me and my friend. Thanks again for your help
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And so, Angus, having read all this, I get the impression that you would benefit from some counselling. Your annoyance at other lovey dovey couples is just your defence mechanism against feeling the loss of how you felt loving someone. I sense a mixture of envy there again, but being annoyed is your defence mechanism.
I think by coming to us today, you have opened yourself up to the possibility of a new relationship. So maybe you don't really want a relationship with this best friend, but would like to be in his place and have a nice girlfriend. Have you met her? How does she treat him? Do you think that their relationship 'works'?
After what you've told us here, it seems that you ought to be feeling those same pangs of annoyance towards your best friend for breaking up the beautiful relationship you had (that is how you perceive it) and going down the lovey dovey way, which paradoxically you both crave and abhor. But he's your best friend, and you're not supposed to get angry or riled by a best friend. It is very confusing.
Time to move on?
So is your period of mourning the lost beautiful friendship almost over? Are you ready to tackle a relationship of your own?
In any case, it is time you forgave yourself for past experiences that you see as negative. One always tends to blame oneself for being so blind or so foolish or so naive, but isn't that what life's about: living and learning?
Relationships would be easy if we always thought identically to the person with whom we are, but that isn't the case. The best we can do is adapt our hopes, our fears, our longings, our desires, our emotions and our behaviour to the persons we cherish... That is sometimes hard to do.
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You're right, it doesn't make sense to be annoyed by something that I was once very interested in. But maybe in the case of using it as a defence mechanism.
I think that you are most likely right about these feelings of wanting a new relationship. I've concluded that the feelings towards my friend are likely the emotions that i've been avoiding, redirected into a confusing, perhaps false sense of attraction and at the same time resentment. I've just had a thought that possibly the reason this has effected me so much is because I see it being betrayed again, like in the past, by somebody I cared for very much. Regardless of me and my friend not being involved in that way.
I have met his girlfriend and hung out with her briefly on occasion and it pains me to say it, because I wanted to tell him I told you so... but she is a nice girl and their relationship seems to be working.
Time to move on? Yes, I think from many things. When that stuff happened to me in the past I didn't speak to anybody about how I felt, which I know made it ten times worse than it could have been. Me and my friend do still speak and see each other often, I think it was just the idea that he had found somebody better than me that hurt. But like you say, it's a self defeating thought because I was never the role his girlfriend is to him anyway.
When I spoke to him about what happened to me in the past and how it had made me feel, he suggested that I should perhaps try to get a girlfriend. As much as I didn't want to admit it, I kind of knew deep down that had been the source of my hatred of relationships and what he suggested was probably true.
Consciously, I don't want a relationship and don't find myself interested in anybody. But I know that subconsciously its likely what i'm yearning for. But then why would I try and get something that I don't feel that I want? I guess that's what i'm going to have to attempt to understand and tackle.
I really have to thank you for the help and advice. You said that it's time to forgive myself from past experiences that I viewed as negative. It wasn't until you prompted me to physically type that whole story out, about what happened to me, that I actually realised how harsh it was as I had always downplayed it's importance since then. I hope that because of that, I can accept that it wasn't my fault and I have a right to feel the way I do. So thanks alot!
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What do I feel about my friend?
