Is the age of nice guys with values dead?

[mrk2010]

and you are wondering why you are feeling alieanated?

I don't feel alienated at all lol, I just think this thread hasn't served its purpose. I was expecting a discussion about whther others have these values the same as me not a discussion about my private life. lol I'm very happy with who I am, I don't have time for relationships at the moment, I have my career to focus on. The only issue I had was people thinking I'm bitter, I'm not, and assuming that I'm feeling sad or longing for a relationship. I just want to know do others have these values? :-)

[mrk2010]

I have a problem with anyone trying to define values and morals for anyone else but themselves. I would probably be considered the devil in your eyes. I have no doubt though that there are men who will be perfect for you...just keep looking.

I don't think you'd be the devil lol, what people get up to in their own privacy is their own business. I think I've worded it wrong, maybe if I back track, I find men who are "typical men" quite intimidating and the whole sex sex sex thing intimidating. I'm sorry if its came across as myself trying to be perfect because I'm not, I swear and curse like a sailor and have faults like everyone else.

[Pix]

Many women wonder the same thing.

A gay guy told me it was easy to seduce straight men, at least for a one night stand. He said men were such dogs that when they can't get what they want that they'll take what they can get. Going by how I've been treated by men I can believe that's generally true. Even wearing a ring and saying I'm married doesn't stop men from coming onto me, and they have ever since I was a child. And when I was a runaway I saw a lot of men with wedding rings cruising for girls, some of whom probably had daughters the same age.

The kind of man you're looking for does exist, but I believe they're exceedingly rare.

going to a sauna for a random hook up

This actually happens? :confused:

I use a sauna all the time and the thought of having sex in one is just....NO!

A guy told me that it was dangerous to sauna naked (or even sauna at all) because even when the same sex the others could come onto you. I found that preposterous and when he expressed surprise that I (along with other women) saunad naked with hippie men I snarked, "I guess something about being in a humid heatwave that makes you sweat buckets kinda kills the mood." But then I added that it was rude to stare at someone that closely and I certainly didn't stare at anyone, let alone their private parts, while I was there. He assured me that the guys were checking ME out. Possible, but I didn't get any sexual vibes off of them.

I've never feared anyone harassing me in one. I've also read plenty of erotica and not one scene has taken place in a sauna. I've saunaed with a girlfriend (with a much higher sex drive) at a fitness center before, too, and we've never done anything there: think about it, even IF we wanted to for some strange reason it would be way too easy to get caught, and once caught then our memberships would almost certainly be revoked, because even if the prudery & etiquette violations didn't get us booted, concerns about the possible safety hazard regarding our getting a burn injury and suing them or leaving possibly infected bodily fluids exposed to others (including those who work there) WOULD get us booted, I'm sure. And other fitness centers would likely hear of us before we even tried joining. In addition, if someone were to come onto me, I'd not only see it as disrespectful (saunas are for health & relaxing in), but also the same not-worth-it risk, and I'd likely report it if she didn't instantly stop at my very firm "leave me alone." And I'm not even hetero.

Though a Russian I knew did tell me they had "VIP Saunas" in Russia, which was a sauna with prostitutes...

[mrk2010]

Yeah Pix, gay sauna's they even provide condoms and lubrication etc I'm not making it up lol

[princealbertofb]

Mark, while I understand where you are coming from and what you are looking for, I've got to admit that I've learnt a lot about other people on these forums and how different values go for different people and especially how gay people might view intimacy and sex in a very different way from what we are largely taught by society to expect (in a straight relationship). It's difficult to shirk off those ideas and to come to grips with the reality of the scene. People can sometimes be shallow and only interested in a shag, even people who would normally not go for just a shag might end up (out of despair or just being fed up with going without sex) doing it, just to feel alive or to boost their ego and get an idea of their power to seduce.

Different things will happen at different ages and in different social situations. So, ok hooking up with someone in a sauna, or going out to a bar and being hit on by men interested only in a shag may be distateful to you, and you're entitled to have that opinion, but I think your view is greatly influenced by society's expectations and this sort of unattainable dream of meeting Prince Charming. It's probably a good thing not to be too unrealistic.

I'm not saying Prince Charming won't happen to you, nor that Mr Right won't some day appear in your life. I'm just saying that building a relationship is work, to some extent, and also letting another person with different points of view and considerations come into your life. Then it's also about some form of compromise. The question then raised is: how much of this person's differences am I ready to let into my life and my personal sphere? There is also that time of latency during which neither of you will quite know what's happening and whether it is a budding relationship or not... Those are unsteady times.

I'm sure there is someone out there who has similar views to yours and who is looking just for a person such as you are. We just need to accept that not all men are alike, which does make the choice of a partner potentially difficult.

I also believe that people who have finally come to terms with being gay have let down an important barrier, one which, in other circumstances would have reined them in to some extent. It may also explain some of the reckless and sometimes self-harming behaviour in which some part of the gay population engages. Many of us haven't had the opportunity to sow our wild oats as teenagers and are finding these thrills later on in life. It does make for a rather 'ungrounded' population, one less likely to want commitment and a serious relationship. Are men just dogs? Some are, some aren't.

[OrphanPip]

I try to make no judgements about what is appropriate for different people, it's not a moral issue but a personal comfort/preference issue. I have no interest in open relationships or random hook ups (though I've come close to those at down times, and the closest was just a one night fling with someone I had known for a few years), but I don't think this has to do with "traditional values" or any such nonsense of that kind.

[Genersis]

A few things:

1)Open relationships aren't always a sign of a lack of values or strength in a relationship.

2) I've seen more than a few threads of regret on this site when it comes to cheating, and normally it comes down to some flaw in the relationship. Sometimes that flaw is caused by them both, or just the cheater, sometimes it's even because of the one who hasn't cheated.

Some people want to see if a relationship can be fixed and saved rather than abandoning ship at the point of needing to be critical of the relationship and what isn't working(what ever that may be). Possibly dooming themselves to the same unhealthy relationships in future.
All i'm saying is sometimes cheating is a cry for help and/or a sign of a problem in the relationship.
Don't be so critical of people who are willing to give their partner a second chance.

3) "traditional family values" is quite frankly out of place here.
All i associate that phrase with is basically Christian family values due to it being the main religion of our countries, and to be blunt, are used to promote very vile things like gender roles and gender inequality , marriage inequality, opposition to gay adoption, and i'm pretty sure it would of been one of the reasons for anti-sodomy laws.

Seems like any Christian organisation with "family" in it's name now days is very archaic in it's beliefs and are normally extremely opposed to homosexuality's(and ANY sexuality beyond heterosexuality) very existence(or at least acknowledging it).
I'm sorry, that phrase is a pet peeve of mine.

[72jay]

but at his whole thing with hook ups, cheating, open relationships and the like is awfully tacky and scummy. So am I being totally silly? Am I being over the top? Or do I just have an old souklthat doesn't fit in with people of my age? But please tell me, is anyone else out there with the same values I have?

I'm kinda like you here as far as beliefs go... I don't believe in random hookups / open relationships / cheating, its not something I'd do, and if I was with someone, I'd expect the same from them. I may be oldfashoned for thinking like that and wanting something meaningful, but its just the way I am LOL

I would always call cheating all of these: bad values, tacky, and scummy

As for random hookups, as I've mentioned elsewhere: not my thing ... a bit tacky (maybe), but I won't go as far as to say "bad values" or "scummy", instead just "different values than mine" . If both people understand/agree it is "just sex/nothing meaningful" then is any harm really done?

[HollandofFrance]

probably few good but who knows and also people in my state are so damn mean-i meet a democrat guy and if they find out i lean at times, toward republicans im suddenly the town fool a nothing , a non person or so it seems-girls too here do that-im sick of it

[East]

Has anyone ever thought about creating a dating website for the self described morally pure, wholesome and decent gay man? They have the straight versions of these types of dating sites...why not a gay version? I have been noticing since I joined gay sites for the first time a few years back now that there are alot of moral majority family values gay men....I was shocked at first but I have gotten used to it (at a distance anyway...in person may be a bit too much for me)...maybe someone should serve the needs of this relatively new group of gay men? Seriously...someone could make some money doing this type of service.