Relationship (and sex) with a transman

[East]

I have seen alot of animosity myself between some...not all... gay and transgender people...not so much F to M but definitely M to F. In 1984 there was a trans bar that SPECIFICALLY forbid gay men from entering. I went in anyway one evening with a lady I knew because she wanted to go. The trans bartender did not know I was gay and I asked her why the sign? She stated that they didn't want to be mistaken for a gay bar because they were NOT gay and feared gay men would chase away her customers (there were two customers in the place). I told her I was gay and she actually said to me...OK...you can finish your drink but after that I will have to ask you to leave. True Story!.

If you listen to talk radio when the subject comes up you will hear transgender folks...at least where I live...call in to complain about being included with "gay" except as a political force because they are not gay...they are straight women in a man's body.....I hear alot of gay men say the same thing on the opposite end of the spectrum I am not defending either side of the argument and I have agreed with people on both sides upon hearing the points they make. My point is that the divide does exist. The divide ends when it comes to a political force at which times the "T" usually ...but not always...agrees it is a good thing...I listened to alot of talk radio with gay themes for many years....

I also remember when the trans girls would come into the gay bar and though I can relate at least 10 examples off the top of my head...the one that stands out and pretty much defines the rest of them is the one guy who was so f*cking rude...he came up to me and grabbed my wrist (not a good idea to touch me without my permission..ever)...he said to me "LISTEN TO ME...I am NOT gay and do not want to be bothered by any gay men or have any gay men talk to me...do you understand? If someone wants to buy me a drink tell them no...I want to be left alone". So...I called the amazon lady Greta (who notoriously wanted to be left alone and since she never told me her name I had to call her something)....and I told her..."Listen Greta...I get it...you aren't gay...you are straight. So...why aren't you in a straight bar where the men are more your type?...and by the way do NOT ever touch me again." She replied..."I get hassled in a straight bar so I am reduced to coming here"...and yes...she actually said "reduced"...I said..."Well have some f*cking respect then...and by the way...I dont' think you will have any problem with the drinks because most of the guys in here are gay and are looking for men...not transsexuals...but you have fun now". She came in maybe once a month over the course of the next 2-3 years and we had little incidents here and there according to her...she was rude ALL the time and never spoke to anyone except to bark her drink order...she actually approached me a few times and told me to remind other people she wanted to be left alone and that she was straight...apparently someone had said HI to her and she didn't like it...she thought I was her personal servant or something. I ignored her requests.

Then there were the trans hookers..the chicks with dicks... They were a bit better than the "nice straight girls" ...meaning they didn't lecture anyone that they were straight and insist on dividing themselves and they were actually usually friendly.....they picked up men and they did not want to fully transition ( I asked alot of questions)....but they pretty much ripped people off and bothered them with propositions as a rule but that had nothing to do with the "T" part...had alot to do with being a street hooker. I had to ask them to leave the bar usually after getting complaints.

I know I have a bit of an attitude about it but it is based on lots of experience one on one and it is what it is. I absolutely support equality and non discrimination under the law for everyone...always...regardless of my personal opinions or experiences.

I am not talking about drag queens..they are quite different. They are usually gay men and sometimes even straight men.

There is definitely a divide with some members of both communities. I have heard T people on at least two occasions actually call in to oppose gay marraige.,..insisting that their marriage is OK because it is a man and a woman...they were fully transitioned and legally a woman and very much did not want to be part of the GLBT community.

[Genersis]

I have seen alot of animosity myself between some...not all... gay and transgender people...not so much F to M but definitely M to F. In 1984 there was a trans bar that SPECIFICALLY forbid gay men from entering. I went in anyway one evening with a lady I knew because she wanted to go. The trans bartender did not know I was gay and I asked her why the sign? She stated that they didn't want to be mistaken for a gay bar because they were NOT gay and feared gay men would chase away her customers (there were two customers in the place). I told her I was gay and she actually said to me...OK...you can finish your drink but after that I will have to ask you to leave. True Story!.

If you listen to talk radio when the subject comes up you will hear transgender folks...at least where I live...call in to complain about being included with "gay" except as a political force because they are not gay...they are straight women in a man's body.....I hear alot of gay men say the same thing on the opposite end of the spectrum I am not defending either side of the argument and I have agreed with people on both sides upon hearing the points they make. My point is that the divide does exist. The divide ends when it comes to a political force at which times the "T" usually ...but not always...agrees it is a good thing...I listened to alot of talk radio with gay themes for many years....

I also remember when the trans girls would come into the gay bar and though I can relate at least 10 examples off the top of my head...the one that stands out and pretty much defines the rest of them is the one guy who was so f*cking rude...he came up to me and grabbed my wrist (not a good idea to touch me without my permission..ever)...he said to me "LISTEN TO ME...I am NOT gay and do not want to be bothered by any gay men or have any gay men talk to me...do you understand? If someone wants to buy me a drink tell them no...I want to be left alone". So...I called the amazon lady Greta (who notoriously wanted to be left alone and since she never told me her name I had to call her something)....and I told her..."Listen Greta...I get it...you aren't gay...you are straight. So...why aren't you in a straight bar where the men are more your type?...and by the way do NOT ever touch me again." She replied..."I get hassled in a straight bar so I am reduced to coming here"...and yes...she actually said "reduced"...I said..."Well have some f*cking respect then...and by the way...I dont' think you will have any problem with the drinks because most of the guys in here are gay and are looking for men...not transsexuals...but you have fun now". She came in maybe once a month over the course of the next 2-3 years and we had little incidents here and there according to her...she was rude ALL the time and never spoke to anyone except to bark her drink order...she actually approached me a few times and told me to remind other people she wanted to be left alone and that she was straight...apparently someone had said HI to her and she didn't like it...she thought I was her personal servant or something. I ignored her requests.

Then there were the trans hookers..the chicks with dicks... They were a bit better than the "nice straight girls" ...meaning they didn't lecture anyone that they were straight and insist on dividing themselves and they were actually usually friendly.....they picked up men and they did not want to fully transition ( I asked alot of questions)....but they pretty much ripped people off and bothered them with propositions as a rule but that had nothing to do with the "T" part...had alot to do with being a street hooker. I had to ask them to leave the bar usually after getting complaints.

I know I have a bit of an attitude about it but it is based on lots of experience one on one and it is what it is. I absolutely support equality and non discrimination under the law for everyone...always...regardless of my personal opinions or experiences.

I am not talking about drag queens..they are quite different. They are usually gay men and sometimes even straight men.

There is definitely a divide with some members of both communities. I have heard T people on at least two occasions actually call in to oppose gay marraige.,..insisting that their marriage is OK because it is a man and a woman...they were fully transitioned and legally a woman and very much did not want to be part of the GLBT community.

Wow.
Very interesting post East.

I understand the not wanting to be grouped together thing, but both homosexual and trans people are, at least in my eyes, much more powerful as a collaborative movement for equality.

I guess being part of a sometimes hated minority doesn't stop someone from hating other minorities eh?:frown:

[Genersis]

To answer the OP.
That situation would drive me nuts.
Knowing a great guy, but knowing i wouldn't be able to sexually gratify myself.
To be blunt, the only sexually organ i'm sexually attracted to is the penis, i'm not sure anything else would do and i'm actually quite turned off by Vulva/vagina.

I really couldn't say if i could compromise unless it actually happened.:redface:

[East]

Wow.
Very interesting post East.

I understand the not wanting to be grouped together thing, but both homosexual and trans people are, at least in my eyes, much more powerful as a collaborative movement for equality.

I guess being part of a sometimes hated minority doesn't stop someone from hating other minorities eh?:frown:

LOL..I almost hit delete on my post because I know it is controversial but the thing is...what I said is the truth from my personal experience and I have noticed a definite divide myself.

The empath part of me has put myself in their shoes because I am obsessed with trying to understand everything and I think the problem the T has may be the struggle for gender identity which is maybe why they can sometimes come off as aggressive and even hostile toward gay men in an attempt to establish their identity as a straight woman trapped in a man's body. I actually understand that and empathize with their struggle but on a one on one basis...no reason to be nasty about it and again...NEVER grab me without my permission:biggrin:

[dfiant]

LOL..I almost hit delete on my post because I know it is controversial but the thing is...

I'm glad you didn't delete it. Talking about a controversial subject doesn't make it any more controversial. It is what it is and it gives a differing perspective on the subject. Thank you.

[OrphanPip]

Some trans men do identify as gay men though, so it's difficult to set that up as a dichotomy.

[East]

Some trans men do identify as gay men though, so it's difficult to set that up as a dichotomy.

You are right Pip...I think I need to clarify something...

When I say "T" I am specifically referring to men who make a full transition to being a women. These are Transsexuals. I forget that the T in GBLT means Transgenders.

Maybe I need an education though...this is how I see it and my own experience....would transgenders cover all three of these groups? I am not sure really.....

Transsexuals...someone who is born in the wrong body and needs to have surgery to correct the mistake. These are the only category of "T" I have heard complain about being lumped with gay men and I have only heard the male to female complain.......never the female to male. I have heard this group consistently claim they are not a gay man but I have only limited exposure of course..maybe some do identify as a gay man?

Transvestites...someone who enjoys dressing in women's clothing ...usually these are straight or bi men. It may or may not be a sexual thing and alot of these guys have no interest in having sex with another man.

Drag Queens...Usually gay but sometimes straight men (and women) who emulate the other sex. Alot of Drag Queens perform. This group readily admits that they are gay and are the visible ones who have been at the forefront of GLBT struggles from the beginning...before anyone else sometimes. We have them to thank for alot of the freedoms we enjoy today ...they have my respect. Even the straight guys who are DQs have no problem with people thinking they are gay.

Am I wrong to assume these three groups compromise the "T"?

[Genersis]

You are right Pip...I think I need to clarify something...

When I say "T" I am specifically referring to men who make a full transition to being a women. These are Transsexuals. I forget that the T in GBLT means Transgenders.

Maybe I need an education though...this is how I see it and my own experience....would transgenders cover all three of these groups? I am not sure really.....

Transsexuals...someone who is born in the wrong body and needs to have surgery to correct the mistake. These are the only category of "T" I have heard complain about being lumped with gay men and I have only heard the male to female complain.......never the female to male. I have heard this group consistently claim they are not a gay man but I have only limited exposure of course..maybe some do identify as a gay man?

Transvestites...someone who enjoys dressing in women's clothing ...usually these are straight or bi men. It may or may not be a sexual thing and alot of these guys have no interest in having sex with another man.

Drag Queens...Usually gay but sometimes straight men (and women) who emulate the other sex. Alot of Drag Queens perform. This group readily admits that they are gay and are the visible ones who have been at the forefront of GLBT struggles from the beginning...before anyone else sometimes. We have them to thank for alot of the freedoms we enjoy today ...they have my respect. Even the straight guys who are DQs have no problem with people thinking they are gay.

Am I wrong to assume these three groups compromise the "T"?

Well i thought the the "T" was for "Trans" encompassing Both Transgender and Transsexual.:confused:
Maybe i'm wrong though.:redface:

EDIT: Maybe this will be of interest to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender
Seems Transgender is an umbrella term for what you stated...well...according to Wikipedia at least.

[East]

Thanks Gen! It really did help...just read section #2 I wasn't really sure if I was right or not so I am glad to read that.

So for clarification...I am only referring to the male to female people who are transsexuals. I have found that there is a very severe case of animosity mostly coming from the women in transition and after they turn...they do not want to be identified with gay men at all from what I have experienced so including them in the GLBT is controversial because they have nothing in common with gay men as they consider themself a straight woman. I am not referring to anyone else in the T category.

If it was just transsexual males to females in the T category I would move from my neutral position to having a problem with it. I have met and dealt with well over 100 of them one on one and I do have a problem with them because they gave me more crap and discrimination for being gay than most straight people.

[pisceskhminh]

So for clarification...I am only referring to the male to female people who are transsexuals. I have found that there is a very severe case of animosity mostly coming from the women in transition and after they turn...they do not want to be identified with gay men at all from what I have experienced so including them in the GLBT is controversial because they have nothing in common with gay men as they consider themself a straight woman. I am not referring to anyone else in the T category.

I'm glad I don't have to face such discrimination that you have. Perhaps not yet.
Are those MTF people who discriminate against you non-op or fully transitioned?