Being in relationships is a precarious place to be when getting dumped out the blue is considered business as usual. "Using" someone for a few months before deciding it's not working out is one thing but way over a year is ridiculous. Not to mention knowing him a couple years before that(!?).
Had he not mentioned psychopath I never would've thought of it. A bit on the selfish side but not that. I thought him a decent guy who would never turn on me at the drop of a hat like a robot with no compassion whatsoever. And then think it no problem that we could be "friends" (almost as if that was to be "expected"??). Apparently I shouldn't be "bitter" - just act like nothing happened, be pals & accept this is just how gay guys do things. I know this sh*t happens in the straight world too but it seems to be more of the "norm" in the gay world.
There's a fine line between being a selfish jerk (or psychopath) & just the typical gay guy. I'm not trying to be "pious" I just can't condone unnecessary cruelness towards anyone - let alone someone you purported to "care" about & "value".
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Never.
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You've been rather disingenuous here, haven't you? This thread was framed as a general discussion about using people for sex, but then the real intention of this thread became clear- to bash and make blanket statements about all gay men and say some pretty horrible things about gay men in general. I agree, you were treated horribly and the guy was an asshole, but there are many good gay men out there and many here on this site and many more in real life are in healthy, loving relationships. There are many good gay and bi men out there, and yes there are also quite a few awful characters out there, but frankly from what this thread has devolved into, you do not seem like much of a catch yourself. You are bitter and maybe you have a right to be that way for a while, but you've let that bitterness make you judgmental. These words may not seem kind, but the things you have said and the judgments you have made about gay men here mean you haven't been very kind to me or other gay men, so sorry, deal with it.
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I don't think this is the usual case, but some people are good con artists. I know because I was with one for 4 years. Trust me when I say I am one cynical person and had I not been, I would never have uncovered the truth about him.
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Iceblink Wrote:You've been rather disingenuous here, haven't you? This thread was framed as a general discussion about using people for sex, but then the real intention of this thread became clear- to bash and make blanket statements about all gay men and say some pretty horrible things about gay men in general.
No, I hoped to get some idea of how long people have "used" others to get an idea of what might be "typical" - 1 month? 3? 6?, a year? 2 years? 10?
What annoys me is people blaming someone for "not knowing" what the user was like or that they would dump you. Or, for not "getting" that this is just how things are done. I'm going by what I've experienced, seen & heard of in the gay community. Being part of that community I WISH guys would treat each other better. I have been in the straight world most of my life so I also know what that is like - more so than the gay world. Guys treat women poorly too of course but maybe the difference is that fewer women tend to be as cut throat as guys. It also could just be "nice guys finish last."
I am not trying to "bash" gay men. I just tell it like I see it. Even about myself. IF I were an asshole I'd admit to being one. I wish I were MORE of one so I could cope better in life. Instead I am "too nice" to "survive" very well in the gay world (or maybe the world in general?). Maybe this one guy is just an asshole - IDK? I wish I did. But being in the gay dating world is "rough" to put it mildly. If you haven't been out there dating for awhile perhaps you've forgotten?
I AM angry so I can't be as "objective" as I might be otherwise. Having someone you thought was a good guy (i.e., one of the "better" ones) turn out to be the opposite is (to me) "frightening." Even IF it was/is MY fault for not being able to "sense" it somehow beforehand.
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novice Wrote:...IF I were an asshole I'd admit to being one. I wish I were MORE of one so I could cope better in life. Instead I am "too nice" to "survive" very well in the gay world (or maybe the world in general?)…. What you are talking about are "boundary issues". I see this over and over again. A lot of gay guys, especially young ones, don't know how to set and maintain good personal, sexual, social, relationship boundaries. No way I can spell it out simply. Best thing to do is research it on line or in some books that deal with relationship dynamics.
*Usually,* though, in brief, they go back to family and parenting issues. Most families do not know about and therefore do not set, maintain and respect personal boundaries. You have a right to protect yourself without *having* to become an ass hole yourself. It does require becoming more aware of how subtly people can fuck with your boundaries and then totally screw you. Once you become sensitive to that you won't be nearly as vulnerable, much better judge of character and etc.
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Could be.....but you gradually let down your guard after you are with someone & they seem trustworthy, etc. "naturally." The longer you are together the less likely you are to think you are just being used. Which is why I wondered if people would stay with someone 6, 12, 18 months "knowing" they weren't into you enough for anything long-term (that amount of time seems close to long term!?) & then be able to drop them like they never existed.
As I write that last sentence I guess that is the "norm" - people dump you when someone better comes along (or back into their life) no matter how short or long it's been?!
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Were you ever actually "together"? This is unclear to me....
Were you a couple?...or did he tell you that you would become a couple?
Are you saying that he deceived you deliberately to get sex?
If so...that is a different thing than two people using each other for sex. What I am referring to is honest. We are used every day of our lives by someone and usually it is with our consent. We agree to be used by our employers in order to get money. If your employer, however, asked you do to something after hours and did not pay you...that would be bad....and assuming you had an agreement with this guy...maybe what he did was bad.
If, however, you were just dating and having sex and then he decided he wasn't interested after getting to know you...that is normal IMO. I know it sucks to be on the other end of that but it gives you an opportunity to come to terms with rejection. I take a positive approach to pretty much everything...it is my nature to do so. I think everything in life is an opportunity if you allow it to be.
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We started dating & did everything a couple would do "together" - we never discussed "ok, how long will this last?" or "are we looking to get married" (who does?). He never said he loved me so in that regard I had no illusions of that. It wasn't "deception" for sex - people dating have sex. My issue isn't being used just for the sex (although that could've been the case for him - idk). We talked about things to get to know each other as people normally do, etc.
Maybe some guys are able to be with someone that long (& longer) yet be ice cold once they find someone else or otherwise decide they want out of a relationship. I feel after several months or so (6 at most) once you've "gotten to know someone" that if one person knows the other is fully invested in it & they know they are not it constitutes "using" someone beyond that point - which is at best not fair & at worst emotionally malicious. But maybe people routinely "stay" with partners they aren't 100% "into" out of convenience or w/e other reason(s) for longer than a few months (???). He didn't act/seem any different at 6, 12 or 18 months which makes me think he "felt" the same (maybe "nothing") the whole time (?).
This particular guy could just be cold hearted (?). Or a psychopath (?) - he said it not me. I'm not out to demonize him or make myself out to be "superior." Maybe he is "typical"? It seems like IF someone ever cared for you they could not & would not dump you out of the blue as if they were discussing the weather that day - w/ no emotion whatsoever. BUT, if you'd never been emotionally invested (or just "using" the person - for sex, companionship, or whatever) then it makes sense that they would display no emotions leaving them (& it's impact on me wouldn't matter). If I knew I was "hurting" a stranger's feelings that bad I'd show/have more empathy than I got.
What is a "reasonable" amount of time to string someone along might be another way of putting it?
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07-06-2014, 03:55 PM
(Edited 07-06-2014, 04:05 PM by MikeW.)
novice Wrote:What is a "reasonable" amount of time to string someone along might be another way of putting it? I would say "zero amount of time". "Stinging someone along" is a lie, a manipulation, getting someone to do something without full knowledge and consent of what is being done.
Earlier you said something about guys in potential relationships not talking about "how long they'd be together" or stuff like that. Well, that's not necessarily the case.
What's being said here is there needs to be clear communication and understanding between guys about what they're doing. If you're having a hookup, it should be a straight forward exchange. If you're dating someone, there's the option to date more than one person. If you start "going steady" or having some sort of 'exclusive' arrangement, that's a whole other deal. It's in that context that these "conversations" about "us" (what are we, where are we headed, to what extent are we 'partners' [just socially? thinking of living together? wanting to 'be there' for one another? buying property together? etc]) begin to happen. Usually the "L" word shows up, commitments and arrangements are discussed.
So… If that wasn't happening after months of dating… that in and of itself would have been a red flag to me. Why should I get all emotionally invested in someone who doesn't feel the same way?
Now, if someone is being totally, consciously dishonest, indeed "stringing me along" (for whatever reason, be it sex, money, social advancement, being psychotic, etc.) that's a whole other deal. People who do that (in my experience) are usually telling me what they think I want to hear. I learned long ago to be highly suspicious of that. Not saying I can't get 'taken' but I have a pretty good 'spidy sense' when it comes to manipulation. Total turn off. If I pick up on behavior like that I can get pretty 'in your face' about it. It is dishonest and manipulative and I won't put up with it at all.
EDIT: As an older (approaching elderly) gay man, this kind of thing is far more common. I can't tell you how many times I've been approached (especially on line) by much younger guys who clearly taking me for a mark of some sort. They assume because I'm old I'm also desperate and stupid. I'm neither.
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