Hello, I love Jesus

[ReasonableJeff]

Just out of curiosity, how would you feel about someone promoting Scientology to you for the same reason? Or even Jehovah's Witnesses (who are Christian, but if you're not JW then you're not the right kind of Christian)?

I don't mind that at all. I enjoying discussing these topics. I don't want to write people off because they are different, I would prefer to hear what they believe and why and then to enter into a discussion about it.

Or drugs? Plenty of people say things from pot to shrooms make us happier, better people (Steve Kubby is one example who even thinks God gave us shrooms to be happy and know Him better, that shrooms are "mana from heaven" and that psychedelic drugs cured his cancer, at least for awhile). Granted, many have lives that turn to crap, but that's just as true of those who embrace Christianity (including in giving up all their money to scam artists thumping a Bible).

I've tried a lot of things that I thought would make me happy, including drugs. I have no problem with someone wanting to offer that option to me. I would be able to relate to a lot of their hopes and experiences regarding drug use.

And what would you tell those gay teens who feel suicidal because they feel God hates them? They certainly don't know much joy in their religion. It would be nice to know what to say to them.

I would try to talk to them and explain to them how we all deserve God's anger because we've all insulted and wounded God by the lives we lead....but God is so rich in mercy that even while we were enemies He sent His son to pay that penalty, to take all of the wrath that we deserve, so that we could freely experience the love of God.

Jesus came and chose to experience God's hate so that we don't have to. Jesus died for us, so we don't need to commit suicide. In Jesus and through Jesus we only have steadfast love from the Father.

[Pix]

Just before I turned 17 I got taken in by a Dianic Wiccan. (She, btw, had been miserable as a Christian but found happiness as a Goddess worshiper.) She introduced me to other Wiccans (most of them Dianic) and I found it all interesting, became Dianic briefly, then more general Wiccan (while I had nothing against they way they preferred to focus on the goddess and "womyn" power I thought a religion was best with a harmony of God & Goddess, not just one or the other) and then became more general neopagan for many years.

But I do recall something that did make me very happy and "filled" from then. I was at a Dianic gathering on the beach and a Dianic sang The Burning Times (and another played a guitar and there were multiple drummers), and then all the women began taking up the chant, "Isis, Astarte, Diana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, Innana!" (In our case "Diana" is pronounced "Dee-Anna" and some will get miffed if you say it "wrong.")

I took it up with them, I FELT it, it was like we were all plugged into something bigger that united us into one bond, we were truly a Sisterhood blessed by the Goddess, whatever Her ultimate name. I sang out Freya a few times, and others sang out their own names, too, but overall, the chant was done by all of us, in perfect sync, symbolizing how even though we came from different backgrounds and for different reasons and operated by ourselves or in our own groups we still shared this same Goddess spirit between us that connected us to the land and sea and the divine. It was an experience that was a lot like sex and better, the energy that we built up and then released, I felt as if I/We were Glowing. And I understood the appeal of that, because there was a sense of belonging to Something Greater (that imparted that Greatness onto me--not in an arrogant way, but I think it does make some arrogant), and I admit that sometimes I miss that feeling, because there was not only that bond, but that feeling that I was Greater than anything life could throw at me, and thus I felt more calm and confident as a result (though this feeling can lead others into dangers--cf, snake handlers!)

If you'd like to learn more about that then these people also describe what I did (not that they use the same chant):




Nevertheless, I can do without it. Still, I miss it sometimes and this last October I watched this vid a lot mainly because she takes up the same Goddess chant we did on the beach (though she's not Dianic) as the memory is so pleasant that hearing her chant that at the end made me smile remembering:




Oh, and I just saw this comment, too!

I felt energy go up and down my body towards the end of this song - the chant. Powerful!

If I ever embraced a religion out of sheer joy it would be Wicca...possibly Vanatru (a variant of Asatru that tends to be closer to Wicca in attitude and with more emphasis on nature). But I'll share about a Christian experience I had, too...

[Pix]

While I was still with those Dianics the one who used to be a Russian Orthodox (and still connected to many) decided to take me to Pascha (starting a little over a month before and lasting about a week after the actual day) as she thought I needed a different experience than what I got in the Bible Belt...and it really was a radical change from what I'd been exposed to before. I got along with the Russians (many immigrants though a few were visitors or expats) and they didn't expect me to get through all the fasts as no American did the first time. I surprised them (perhaps my time as a runaway and going for days without eating much of anything toughened me up). I was honest that this was an unschooling experience to learn more about them but most of them were friendly to me (though they obviously hoped I'd convert).

And then came the day of Resurrection, the fasting was total at this point (water was allowed, and I think someone snuck me some bread soaked in communion wine though technically I wasn't supposed to have it as I wasn't Orthodox) and then ALL NIGHT we stood, chanted, did some marching around the church, and within the only lights were that of candles while incense filled the air and somehow the icons all around me seemed to come alive radiating an energy. When the priest did a march some of the laity touched his robe and to them it was divine, possibly allowing for miracles, and while my consciousness wasn't that altered I understood.

And then the Resurrection happened (ritually speaking) and we all started kissing each other (on the cheek) and it didn't even feel strange to me even as I did this with complete strangers (and the old men who did it with me didn't feel the least bit sexual to me) as we'd say: "Christos Voskrese!" ("Christ is Risen!") & "Voistinu Voskrese!" ("Indeed He is risen!").

And then (after still more ritual) we were marched down the stairs where a potluck was ready for us and our fasting was over as Jesus had come back from the dead. They viewed alcohol differently from those behind the pine curtain and they even had preteens drinking vodka and/or wine, and I had such drink given to me as well (though I was 17) and mixed with all the fasting and sleep deprivation I got trashed pretty fast. And then a priest ran down the stairs (not all the way) with his cross raised and shouted, "Christos Voskrese!" as loud as he could and we all shouted back, "Voistinu Voskrese!" Each time was louder than the last and the last time I actually put one foot on the table while raising a glass of vodka shouting it (and no one said anything about my doing that, though it's conceivable the priest saw it and decided not to get me anymore excited :redface: ).

I followed up on the immediate rituals that followed but about a week after my mentor took me back. I got interested and started reading the Bible (though mainly seeing it as a book of myths, but for the first time I was actually curious) as well as start learning theology but the more I learned the more I disliked it (when I started seeing what the Bible actually said I even became very frightened of those claiming to be "Bible believing Christians" until I realized most of them only had a vague, sanitized understanding of what it said)...and many of the Dianics were sure I got other books as well on like the dark side of Christian history (and also the Goddess trilogy on video, IIRC) as well as other relevant topics from a Dianic perspective.

That was the closest I came to joining a Christian religion (not that it was close, I was more intrigued in the exotic experience and worldview)...but maybe it runs in the family as I have irreverent relatives and both my 'rents had a brief Christian phase when I was a child but quickly dropped it (they tried dragging me to church but I got out of it by appealing to the parental unit not temporarily insane :tongue: ), apparently not feeling fulfilled with Jesus.

Christianity simply is not for me just as it's not for so many others (and just because it gives you happiness doesn't mean it would have the same affect on others). And neopaganism was far more fulfilling for me but ultimately I was more interested in truth than feeling good and my love for truth ended up making me an agnostic again. I believe there's some metaphysical reality out there but I have no idea what it might be and figure it must be as inconceivable to us as cars are to ants.

Still, I will never forget the ecstasy I felt chanting, "Isis, Astarte, Dee-Ana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, Inanna!"

[Double007]

Welcome,

Thanks for reaching out!

[AquaKnight]

WELCOME....i think you have good intent so gfu

[Corsac]

I'm sorry, perhaps I could have worded it better. I didn't mean to convey that you guys (and gals) aren't living fulfilling lives. I realize that everyone has their own interests and fulfillments in life......however, I do honestly believe that no matter how great your life is right now or how happy you are....you could be happier or more fulfilled in Jesus.

You're doing it again, you're conveying yourself in the exact same light. You need to stop being ignorant (which you are in my opinion) and stop telling others how they should be doing to lead a more fulfilling life, which is what you are doing no matter how nice you're trying to make it look. You need to learn how to respect other peoples right to live their lives how they see fit because right now you're overstepping that line and its making you look like a bad person.

My neighbour is a christian and very much in touch with Jesus herself, the difference between you and her is that she has accepted that there are different people who don't connect with him so she doesn't preach that other peoples lives could be better by trying the same as her. She is also of an age where normally people would consider gay people horrnedous, but our 2 families get on great and none of that was due to any religion or religious figure.

Jesus is what you have found, let other people find what makes their own lives fulfilling instead of telling them to do what you're doing. You're actually helping give people a negative opinion on religion by effectively preaching.

[Marc]

Do I think there is a guy sat on a cloud whizzing around the sky granting wishes on 1 hand, and striking others down with the other? NOPE.

Do I think the planet has a place for religious fanatics, the likes that are found almost exclusively in African and Arab countries, and also it seems, across the United States? NOT A CHANCE

Is there a place for religion in 2012? YES as long as it is practiced to a modern standard, eg no stoning, no cutting hands off, no condemning gays to hell, no burning books or different faiths etc.

Running up and down the streets, knocking on peoples doors, trying to 'convert' people to god, is just as bad as trying to 'convert' gays to straight.

Brain washing has no place in 2012.

[cardiganwearer]

...

I believe the church has a problem with gay people for all the above reasons. In the Bible homosexuality is talked about as a sin along with a ton of other behaviors and actions that we all are guilty of...I'm sorry to say though that the common "church-goer" views this one sin as unacceptable while all of the other sins that they struggle with are viewed as "acceptable."

That's my two cents. Hope that helps.

If you believe the church has a problem with gay people, and there'll be many here who will confirm that for you, why don't you spend your time talking to the church? You say you don't want to hang around on xtian boards because

Not a very interesting discussion when everyone already agrees with you.

Are we then to take it that you agree with some of the stuff that can be found on xtian boards and sites? Do you believe that being gay is a choice, that it can be prayed away? If you don't, you'd be helping us more by going and talking to those people, nobody here asked for your help and speaking for myself I find your intrusion most inappropriate.

Welcome to the boards, now go away.

[Nick9]

Hello Nick,

Thanks for being willing to ask. I won't be able to answer on behalf of everyone but I can give you my best guess. I think it's a combination of things....

First, people like to be able to feel safe while critiquing others. Most people aren't gay so hetero's can "safely" criticize them without fear of having to evaluate their own faults because same sex attraction isn't something that they struggle with.

Secondly, people are threatened by change and people that are different than themselves. Being around gay people means that straight families have to embrace change in some regard.

Third, people are terrible and enjoy pointing out others faults.

I believe the church has a problem with gay people for all the above reasons. In the Bible homosexuality is talked about as a sin along with a ton of other behaviors and actions that we all are guilty of...I'm sorry to say though that the common "church-goer" views this one sin as unacceptable while all of the other sins that they struggle with are viewed as "acceptable."

That's my two cents. Hope that helps.

Hi,

you know I would understand if this was the reason for common people to behave like that.
But priests have power and they know it. They should be aware how much damage they can make by a single word. They should be more resistant to common people's flaws...

Unless... hmm here I am on a thin ice... If someone strongly believes in something and wants others to believe in it too, and he does what he can to make them believe... he seems to a bit of fanatic to me. Maybe priests believe that they were born to teach others what is right and what's wrong.
So when they think the Bible says that (I am not so sure about that, btw), they are willing to set their church-goers against somebody else...

... so happy to live in an atheistic country

[Counselor]

Not a very interesting discussion when everyone already agrees with you. Also, I attend church regularly so I am able to fellowship with other Christians in that way.

So you've joined this forum just to have disagreements? I know if I joined a Christian forum, I would probably be banned, after a maelstrom of hate, which is why I joined a forum that not only supports my views, but encourages a more diverse community of views.