Disciplinary action at work due to sickness-absence

[Danno90]

So tomorrow at 12noon I have a disciplinary hearing at work for "sickness-related absence". It's something which I didn't realise they could do until recently but it's there in my contract in black and white. I can see why; a company doesn't want to employ freeloaders who call in sick whenever they feel like as they're a waste of payroll.

But it's not as if I've been abusing the system.

Where I work we have a target for sickness... No more than two occasions or 2.8% of the work rota is allowed off sick over a period of 26 weeks.

I'm currently at 5.8% for three occasions.

I had a 24 hour flu bug, a one day sickness/diarrhoea bug followed by the compulsory 48 hour clearance period after symptoms have passed, and a week of with killer flu (possibly the norovirus, but with only a few tummy symptoms).

I'm currently under the doctor for depression, and one of the "symptoms" of depression is unfortunately a compromised immune system, so I've caught every bug that's done the rounds recently. I've managed to work through the colds, but not the three bugs mentioned above.

Apart from those three occasions I've kept at work even though my GP seemed prety keen every time I've gone back (once a month over the last 4 months) to give me a 2 week sick note. My thinking so far has been that I needed something to keep me busy so I'm not sat at home wallowing in my own despair.

So anyway... How do I approach this hearing tomorrow? I've decided I'm not contesting the fact I've been off ill as it's there in black and white in the paperwork. But I'm hoping the managers sitting in on it will be able to appreciate the fact that even though I find it hard to get out of bed, let alone drag my ass into work EVERY SINGLE DAY I CAN, I still manage to work through this chronic illness. Hoping they see the three occasions are due to a single cause etc.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've got a good friend and colleague coming in with me to "hold my hand" because I know that's something others at work have found useful so that they didn't feel bullied/intimidated by being on their own.

This job isn't somewhere I want to be within the next two years or so, but I still don't want "worst case scenario" on my record. Apart from this I have a pretty clean record, and at times feel I have gone above and beyond.

I just hope I don't do anything rash such as walking out there on the spot, which although unlike me, HAS crossed my mind a few times recently. One of the managers doing the disciplinary is apparently rather fond of asking her "victims" if they think they're in the right job... If she asks me that, if I'm in the frame of mind which I'm currently in I might just answer her truthfully... Which would see me out of a job in next to no time. And my current thought on that is "so what?" if I'm honest. It's no exaggeration to say that part of the cause of my depression is work-related, so that would deal with that.

[MisterTinkles]

Im not sure how that works in England, but here in the USA you usually get three disciplinary actions before you are fired.

If this is your first action, then its probably just a formality....advising you of the rules and what will happen if you are sick again.....blah, blah. blah.

Did you go to the Dr. when you were sick? If so, get a note from the Dr. stating how sick you were and how long the Dr. expects you to be sick before getting better. If you didnt go to the Dr. then I would have your friend (or two or three) be your witnesses as to how sick you were....for example, if your friend had to run errands for you to get food or medicine because you were so sick.

If they get pissy with you, just state that it was either stay home sick or coming to work and pass out or stay in the restroom all day, and having everybody else catch what you had.


On another note, you didnt read your contract before you signed it????????????

[EvenOlderButWiser]

As a manager with a lot of staff to look after, I have a very simple rule. Be truthful about the reasons as anyone in management will have heard every excuse possible, believe me!

If you have been to the doctors, offer to get a written copy of your doctors attendance from the surgery.

Is the 48 hours post flu in your staff handbook? if so then it cannot be used against you. If it isn't - but everyone talks about it, then be nice, your don't have a leg to stand on.

If you were off for a straight week, then you should have provided a doctors certificate on your first day back.

If you have been suffering depression and you feel strong enough to say so then do. If it opens up the discussions with your line manager it may actually help. If it is workplace related stress, then most organisations have controls/advice in place to help employees deal with it. Again discuss it with your line manager - just be wary of revealing too much if he/she is the cause of the depression!

Finally, despite what you may think, we managers catch colds, get man flu and have sick days as well. We're only human, we do understand that sickness happens. We just have to ensure its sickness and not a sicky!

Good Luck

ObW
X

One last thing, if its at 12 noon, be 5 minutes early. A pet hate of most managers, me included, is people who turn up late. Shows disrespect and conveys the I don't give a shit attitude. That will get you fired.

[Danno90]

Thanks guys.

It wasn't a full week with the flu, and none of the times did I think it serious enough to see the Dr, knowing they were just bugs doing the rounds. Our doctor surgery usually has a week's wait for an appointment anyway, so by the time I'd have gone in I'd have been recovered.

The 48 hours post-bug IS in the handbook for sickness/diarrhoea, and counted as part of the absence rate, so I guess I could always query that as it's "forced" absence. But dealing with the public (I work in a supermarket) they don't want to run the risk of contagious diseases etc.

And yes I did read the contract, but I didn't realise three years ago that I'd be diagnosed with depression, and it's only the last few months that I've realised what effect that has on my immune system.

[dfiant]

I'm with OBW . As a manager I often am involved in disciplinary discussions. The serve the purpose of addressing certain behaviours that conflict with company policy and present the opportunity for employer and employee to have a discussion.

Discussions of this manner in Australia, and I suspect the UK, are generally 'warnings'.

Be honest, if you have medical certificates and you haven't presented them, this would be a good opportunity to present the medical certificates explaining your absences. In Australia you can get a medical certificate from a GP or a Pharmacist.

If you don't have proof of illness, then I am afraid business is business.

[cardiganwearer]

I'm probably coming in a bit late for you but it might be worth checking, many employers allaw you to take someone with you to disciplinaries. If you've got a friend or a colleague who can accompany you it's usually a help.

Also take notes and keep across what's going on. It is normally the case in such hearings that this should not be the first time you hear of any of your employers complaints. The disciplinary should be happening because attendance or whatever has not improved after other approaches have been made. This should be made clear in your employers disciplinary policy, which you should have been made aware of. These points become important if it goes further.

Also bear in mind that most managers don't actually like doing this sort of thing, but would like to be left with the impression that they've achieved something. So while I wouldn't suggest you grovel and apologise, if you can offer them something constructive, be first in to suggest a solution or a target for improvement you'll be in with a better chance. Best of Luck.

[Aeneas]

I can see why; a company doesn't want to employ freeloaders who call in sick whenever they feel like as they're a waste of payroll.

don't underestimate the annoyance this causes on managers for reasons besides the payroll - they too have to report to someone else and have tasks to do and responsibilities to meet and people who don't show up can be a major distraction for them.

not only can the operation suffer when being short staffed but this also means finding unsuitable / untrained personnel as replacement or having to demand more from the people who do show up - leading to staff demotivation, poor or inefficient service and so on.

sometimes the bottom line isnt actually too affected in certain operations as people earn their pay by the hour. but you are still expected to be reliable.



as for your illness, you should have seen a doctor. even if you are convinced you are just suffering from a flu you could actually have an infection requiring anti-biotic treatment and you are not aware of it. the symptoms are the same as the flu but the right treatment can have you out of bed in a day or two instead of a whole week.

also, it does show that you had the intention of getting well as fast as possible.


so yes, at the hearing they will want to be convinced that first and foremost, they can rely on you. everyone is prone to getting sick, but that is not as important as knowing that you are doing your outmost to overcome it and attend to your professional responsibilities.

it will be hard to convince them when you are actually unhappy with your job, but i would try to acknowledge and sympathise with their concerns as this will show them that you are aware of the significance of this hearing in the first place, and the importance of meeting your responsibilities in the future.


good luck and wish you a swift recovery.

[Undreamt]

Just in case its probably a good idea to take copies of any doctors certificates that you have or receipts of doctors visits.

If you can say that you have been two the doctors x times over the past 6 weeks and you have somethign to prove it then your in much better standing than trying to prove you have been sick any other way.