Child Behaviour ODD?? PLEASE READ!!

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

So i have a friend with 2 young children (both boys)
1 is 12 the other 5 and i am a frequent visitor to the house and we get on real well.

Tonight their mum went into the bedroom of the older child to say goodnight and both boys were in the bed together under the covers and said they were sleeping in his room tonight.

So mum said ok and went to straighten up the covers...to which the older lad detested saying he has nothing on ( is naked ). Which of course she found rather odd considering her 5 year old was also there.

After saying to the 2 boys that this is wrong and he cant be naked with his little brother in the bed the younger lad said

"he asked me to suck his willy"

SHOCKED!!! is not the word.

So she sent the young one upstairs and the 12 year old was swearing blind the 5 year old is lying but the 5 year old says its the truth and he said no he didnt want to do it,

My questions are as follows...

1- Is this common?

2- How should we approach this with the older lad. - We dont want to go in all guns blazing because it might screw his head up but we need to enforce that its out of order and isnt normal behaviour.

3- should we seek advice from the school? and will they involve social services etc?

This is probably a little random but its a serious thread and i would like some genuine feedback and constructive advice.

I know this is the right place to seek it

thanks all

[VirgoMasquerade]

Yikes, I'm no parent ( not yet..) But I will say this. It sounds like the 12-year-old is curious and wants to experiment. This is a human thing and it shouldn't be handled in a way it hurts or harms the boys feeling. I think mom should sit down and have a talk with him and let him know the feelings his having means he's just growing up, But he shouldn't rush into things like this at his age. And forcing someone to do those things with him isn't right either. Also, if she is a single parent and the father isn't around try having a trusting male figure to tell him a few things from a male perspective.

[Anocxu]

Well..
Your post almost sound like a concerned parent.

It would be hard for anyone here to give advice to the friend of a friend in this situation. .. maybe if you tell us how you'll be involved as a 'friend' you'll get better advice.

The 'quality' of the advice you get in a forum will reflect the quality and integrity of the information you post.

Honestly ..
What is your true relationship to the mother or son?

How did you find out?

Why seek professional advice from a gay forum ?

This is a child's future we are talking about..

[ShiftyNJ]

My first question is, did the mother ask for your help?

[Darius]

I doubt sex play between brothers is uncommon, but it would be better if they were closer in age.
It sounds like the younger one knew how to say NO. Good for him.

[Emiliano]

The first step is to talk to each child individually about the difference between appropriate and inappropriate touching. It's also important to tell them both that if they are ever touched or asked to touch someone in an inappropriate way or feel uncomfortable about the way someone is engaging with them, they need to tell an adult. I'd also talk to the older child and tell him that now that he is getting older, he's not a little kid anymore, and his body is changing, he should be wearing underwear to bed and be more aware of his own privacy as well as to respect the privacy of his brother who has expressed feeling uncomfortable.

Kids, especially at 5, are not able to articulate their thoughts and emotions as well as adults. Often children will bring something up casually or jokingly or even laugh about something that is disturbing them. It's up to adults to be perceptive and pick up on things.

I would also keep an eye on their interactions, maybe not so blatantly, just to be sure everything is ok. Children are curious about their parts and about sex, sure that's natural. But I don't think it's something a parent should ignore or automatically brush off.

I think you guys are right not to attack the older kid or flip out, but as much as there is a duty to educate and guide the older child to what is appropriate and what isn't, there is a duty to protect the younger child. Talk to them, listen to them, and keep an eye on them.

[Anocxu]

I doubt sex play between brothers is uncommon, but it would be better if they were closer in age.
It sounds like the younger one knew how to say NO. Good for him.

[MENTION=21957]Darius[/MENTION]
It would have been better if this never happened.
There is a terrible misunderstanding of boundaries by the older brother .

I understand a 12 year old male's curiosity.
But asking his 5 year old brother for oral is waaaaay out of line.

[meridannight]

1- Is this common?

2- How should we approach this with the older lad. - We dont want to go in all guns blazing because it might screw his head up but we need to enforce that its out of order and isnt normal behaviour.

3- should we seek advice from the school? and will they involve social services etc?

not uncommon.

do not get people outside family and close friends involved in this. it's a family matter. (you will betray his trust if you involve strangers to this intimate part of his life and publicize something he doesn't know how to feel about himself yet, and he will have an adverse reaction to that and you).

of course, the 12-year-old was out of line, but he is not capable of understanding exactly how he was out of line. you can't make him see it like that just yet.

his parents, preferably his father, should talk to him about sex. that's the obvious part. actually, i'm thinking some adult male who he is close to should talk to him too (an uncle, maybe; or a close family friend). kids that age are usually strongly averse to talking/listening to their parents on this subject. parents should talk to him, but someone the kid himself considers a friend, and actually listens to should also approach him about it (if there exists such a person).

he is at an age where the hormones are starting to kick in, and if the parents haven't had the talk with him yet, now is the time. it should be made clear to him that what he's feeling is not wrong, that it's perfectly normal, actually. but that he can't live out his urges on his brother. don't yell at him, don't scold him, don't lecture him. talk to him openly, educate him on basic sexual topics, like masturbation, sexuality, safe sex, and consent. (the latter part is really what needs to be raised with him). he probably already knows how to find all these subjects on the internet anyway, so censorship -- like that about sexuality -- is useless. overall he needs an understanding authority figure to make it clear that there are certain lines that the boy can't cross without making him feel like pleasuring himself or having someone else pleasure him is wrong.

that's how i would go about it.

[Pix]

I couldn't say anything definitively without actually having been there.

As a general rule of thumb I would find it believable, and though uncommon, not as uncommon as you might think (if anything it's probably more common than I realize). Hopefully it's just immaturity and once some firm boundaries are set down (in a way that doesn't traumatize him, and one can be firm without being Stephen King novel bat shit crazy about it) then it won't happen again.

But I'd also want to make sure no one had told that 12-year-old the same thing. Though it's not always the case, kids who get that bold sexually have often had someone be that bold with them first. ('Course he could have easily gotten inspired by the internet, it's frustrating to me how often my innocent searches take me to porn and a boy that age would probably actively seek it out.)

The 5-year-old would need some kind of explanation as well though I'd try to keep it casual so he didn't go around talking about it so that neighbors and even strangers can hear of it (very tricky to do with a child that age).

I wouldn't take it to the school because they're very unlikely to help and more likely to harm or at least gossip over it. And I don't think any 12-year-old should be put on a d-base for sex offenders, but that does happen.

[LJay]

To the 12-year-old: Johnny, this is not a good thing to do with your little brother. He is much to young to understand what it is all about. You are getting to the age when you are changing and will want to know more about how our body works. I am not going to pnish you for being curious, but I am going to say that you need to know more about all of this and that we need to work on that together.

To the 5-year-old: Johnny should not have asked you to do that and it is OK to say no. If you have any questions about this please ask them and I will try to help you with answers.

All of this is assuming that there is not a father around. If it is Mom, then it is Mom. Kids need to be able to handle family problems right where they are. An outside figure is just not available as often as Mom (or Dad) in a single parent home. If Dad is around then he should be involved, but the children should be able to get help from either parent. It is for certain, these days, that a 12-year-old needs to know the whole nine yards, but it needs to come in a home context and not from school where the advice may not fit in with what the parent wants for their child.

OP, I don't know where you fit in with this but if you are a friend, and not a member, of this family, it should not be your job to deal with this. The situation should be dealt with by the kids parent(s.)

PS: Though I have dealt with thousands of kids in a counselor and mentor role, I am glad not to have my own and situations like this one are part of the reason. Best of luck, Mom.