New relationship taking a lot of work

[Anonymous]

I've been corresponding via PM with another GS member about this issue and would like to open up the discussion to everyone else.

Basic info: I'm a gay man dating another gay man who's 10 years younger. We've known each other for 1 year. Dating exclusively for 6 months. We're in love, but we have differences and disagreements. Ok. We have arguments (like everyone?).

I find this relationship to be taking a lot of work. Frankly, I'm of two minds here. On one hand, it bothers me. I think we should still be in the "honeymoon" stage where we're totally enamored with each other. But on the other hand, I think, this is real life. If we're serious about this, yeah, it's going to be hard work, lots of compromises, etc...

My personal style is to be "conscious and deliberate" about the direction we go.

My younger BF is also bothered by how hard things seem to be. He prefers things to be "easy and natural". I told him, if we let things just be easy and natural this relationship would have extinguished a long time ago.

Things complicating our relationship:
--He's unemployed (but looking hard for work and interviewing)
--I'm paying his rent/expenses (with a mutual agreement for repayment)
--My lease is up end of Dec. (I need a place to live; why pay 2 rents?)
--Discussed moving in together (but we agree it's early in relationship)
--Holidays/winter is coming (added seasonal stress)
--(other peripheral aggravations that add up, but are manageable)

Any perspective here? Is the amount of effort so early in the relationship an indication of how much we love each other? Or is this a red flag; a bad sign; a harbinger of worse things to come???

Thanks for all comments.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

The honeymoon stage is replaced by the "power struggle" stage. Seems to me you two are at the power struggle stage and you can choose to either work things out like mature adults and talk about it, or you can fight about crap.

http://www.relationship-help.com/article....asp?id=64 may be of some help to get you started.

As for these other problems, you two need to sit down and discuss together the options.

Arguments only happen when the lines of communication are not fully open. You two need to set time aside for full 100% communication where there are rules set, such as not taking anything said as a challenge to fight, such as allowing each other to finish what they need to say, such as having a safe way to ask for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions on what the other meant.

If you are in the long haul here, this communication time set say once a week will save a lot of headaches as you both learn the art of real communication.

his job situation isn't going to change magically. There is an economic crises still going on, expect his unemployed status to remain for a long time, or expect him to be under-employed - its happening globally. you can't really expect him to be able to do more than the rest of the world.

Careful, money is one of the places where resentments are created. You both need time to vent the frustration that comes with this subject safely. He most likely feels far, far worse about being unemployed than you feel about his unemployed status.

[Anonymous]

The honeymoon stage is replaced by the "power struggle" stage. Seems to me you two are at the power struggle stage and you can choose to either work things out like mature adults and talk about it, or you can fight about crap.

http://www.relationship-help.com/article....asp?id=64 may be of some help to get you started.

As for these other problems, you two need to sit down and discuss together the options.

Arguments only happen when the lines of communication are not fully open. You two need to set time aside for full 100% communication where there are rules set, such as not taking anything said as a challenge to fight, such as allowing each other to finish what they need to say, such as having a safe way to ask for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions on what the other meant.

If you are in the long haul here, this communication time set say once a week will save a lot of headaches as you both learn the art of real communication.

his job situation isn't going to change magically. There is an economic crises still going on, expect his unemployed status to remain for a long time, or expect him to be under-employed - its happening globally. you can't really expect him to be able to do more than the rest of the world.

Careful, money is one of the places where resentments are created. You both need time to vent the frustration that comes with this subject safely. He most likely feels far, far worse about being unemployed than you feel about his unemployed status.

Thanks for the link. Interesting it mentions the "enchantment" phase lasting only 6-8 months (typically). That's pretty much right where we are.

I do like the idea of setting aside some time each week to "talk". I seem to press more on talking (as I try be conscious and deliberate) but my timing usually sucks. His desire to keep things easy and natural doesn't lend itself to impromptu, heavy discussions.

When we argue, I have had some success in saying, ok, this is a bad time but let's agree to discuss this "later". The problem is, bring up the "problem" again without seeming like I want to pick a fight or "can't let things go."

Lastly, yes! Believe me, I'm totally sympathetic to his job crisis. I put zero pressure on him as you're entirely correct. It's much more difficult for him than it is for me. I see how hard he works at his job applications and he's NEVER asked me for ANYTHING. Not one cent. That's why I'm happy to help him and provide as much encouragement and support as I can.

Still. I cannot deny the stress exerted on our relationship by his unemployment and our financial arrangement.

Thanks for your comments.

[Pix]

As for the money sitch I find it helps to put a monetary value on things done. For example, it costs to pay someone to clean house, so if he's doing housework then that counts as money, IMO. Likewise, people spend a lot on comedy so if he makes you laugh then that's contributing to your life as well. And so is running errands.

It's "jobism" that says a person only contributes if s/he pays money (and typically works a job that involves either a salary or time card) and this is a lie. I know one woman who lost her man because she refused to let him write fanfic for fun. He had been a professional author and still gains royalties from his books but after he lost his contract and took a different job that paid in addition to the royalties he got he continued to write which his wife, a true Jobist, said was a waste of time and ordered him to stop as he wasn't getting paid anymore which resulted in him leaving her because not everything is about money. (Btw, I told him that if she thought something's only worth doing if one is paid he should refuse to have sex for fun, only for money, but he refused my advice on that...still left her after she wouldn't stop trying to make him conform to the soul-crushing Jobist philosophy, however.)

Granted, economics sometimes force people to make hard choices (just as one can't always pay for housecleaning & comedy one can't always financially support someone who contributes these things the same way), but just because a person doesn't have a job doesn't mean s/he's a freeloader taking advantage of you. He COULD be, of course, but if he's making your life better (cleaning house, picking up the things you need, making you laugh and feel good enough to keep running the rat race rather than collapse in a sense of futility and despair) then he's probably worth it and pulling his weight in services rather than money. It's up to you to decide if he's worth what he does for you, just as it's up to him to decide if you're worth it. (I've turned down people who had a lot of money who wanted me to live with them because they weren't worth it, I'd rather have my freedom than a bunch of nice things that are but cold comfort in the end.)

[Blue]

So, you are currently paying rent for two places? I'd remedy that, even if it means one of you sleeps on the couch or, you have two beds. (assuming you want to make this work of course.)

Jobs are tight, anyone is lucky to have even an underpaying job right now, so, if you need him to work then he has to be willing to take whatever is available, even if it's a lousy, low paying job.

The rest, you need to talk about, not get mad about but talk and find working compromises..

[Nick9]

Hi Anon,

I don't have a solution, but I will try to ask questions. Maybe by thinking about the answers you'll come up with something you haven't thought about yet. I don't expect you to answer them for us

What would happen if you stopped trying so hard? Would you two break up? Why?

What are the problems you keep arguing about? A lot of small ones like doing dishes? Several really big ones concerning your future together?

If you have a problem in your work or with other people, how do you like to approach it?

If you have to do something/go somewhere/arrange something do you think about all possible alternatives/problems that could occur? Do you try to come up with the best way? Or do you just run in it head first?

When/if you doodle on a piece of paper, what you draw?


MAYBE, it's not your relationship. It's your character. Maybe you like security (hmm, I am not sure about the right word here). Maybe you like to know where you are, if there are some problems or not, and if yes how to solve them. Maybe you want a clean road ahead, no bumpy ride, and as soon as you see a stone in the distance, you start thinking about what to do about it way before you reach it.

You know, when I doodle, all my lines are short and straight, connecting each other. It would cause me physical pain if someone told me "doodle spirals" I tried. And I could hardly believe how difficult and "against me" it was. Then I read more about doodling and realized that this pattern can be recognized in many aspects of my life.

I thought that all people doodled like that. I thought that all people were like me, thinking ahead, feeling bad about problems that MAY come. Big surprise, I was wrong. My partner draws spirals and other shapes I can't even name in English. When I make a typo in handwriting I scratch the whole word and write it again. He overwrites the misspelled letter several times. It drives me nuts! When I want to make a note I grab a piece of a big paper. He uses little sticky notes and covers them in writing.
And even though it seems like little and insignificant, surprisingly, it copies our different characters.

Maybe there is nothing wrong with your relationship. Maybe you just need to accept that your characters are simply very different. Which can be an asset

[EvenOlderButWiser]

To be honest, the red flag for me is that you're paying for his expenses.

If the relationship were to wayne and fail then he clearly has a lot more to loose that you do. For this reason alone he will be looking to sustain the relationship for as long as possible, which is why you may both be finding things hard going at the moment. You because your want to commit, but are getting frustrated with where things seem to be heading, him because he has no other options at the moment, irrespective of any particular phase that the relationship may be in.

I know you said there is 10 years between you (and nothing wrong with that) but you don't actually say what age you are? This will have a bearing on whether its even practical for him to repay you regardless of stated intentions, which could also be putting additional strain on the relationship.

All relationships take work to maintain and nurture, and its perfectly normal to have arguments along the way, but if your struggling at this stage (before you're cohabiting) then I suspect things may deteriorate further unless you have an open and honest heart to heart so you both understand what each of you want, and where the common goals are, if indeed there are any.

Good Luck.

ObW
x

[Anonymous]

As for the money sitch I find it helps to put a monetary value on things done. For example, it costs to pay someone to clean house, so if he's doing housework then that counts as money, IMO. Likewise, people spend a lot on comedy so if he makes you laugh then that's contributing to your life as well. And so is running errands.

It's "jobism" that says a person only contributes if s/he pays money (and typically works a job that involves either a salary or time card) and this is a lie. I know one woman who lost her man because she refused to let him write fanfic for fun. He had been a professional author and still gains royalties from his books but after he lost his contract and took a different job that paid in addition to the royalties he got he continued to write which his wife, a true Jobist, said was a waste of time and ordered him to stop as he wasn't getting paid anymore which resulted in him leaving her because not everything is about money. (Btw, I told him that if she thought something's only worth doing if one is paid he should refuse to have sex for fun, only for money, but he refused my advice on that...still left her after she wouldn't stop trying to make him conform to the soul-crushing Jobist philosophy, however.)

Granted, economics sometimes force people to make hard choices (just as one can't always pay for housecleaning & comedy one can't always financially support someone who contributes these things the same way), but just because a person doesn't have a job doesn't mean s/he's a freeloader taking advantage of you. He COULD be, of course, but if he's making your life better (cleaning house, picking up the things you need, making you laugh and feel good enough to keep running the rat race rather than collapse in a sense of futility and despair) then he's probably worth it and pulling his weight in services rather than money. It's up to you to decide if he's worth what he does for you, just as it's up to him to decide if you're worth it. (I've turned down people who had a lot of money who wanted me to live with them because they weren't worth it, I'd rather have my freedom than a bunch of nice things that are but cold comfort in the end.)

Thanks.

I do see the value in "debt forgiveness".

However, I'm not sure I'd like to "commoditize" (to coin a word?) certain chores. For example, cleaning the bathroom is worth this much, but cleaning the kitchen is worth that much. I DO value "sharing the burden" of daily life. But I'm reluctant to put a monetary value on it.

All that said, I'm TOTALLY prepared (emotionally) to never see that money again. It was NEVER a "gift", but a zero interest loan to be paid back when able.

And not only that, but if this relationship does go the distance (and I hope it will) and our finances do mingle to an even greater extent, well, there's the problem of his student loans.

I've already told him if we do stay together for the long term I will personally set his student debt situation as a higher priority than my own reimbursement.

To be clear, like an investment (gamble), I've only offered money I can AFFORD to lose. Naturally, I don't want to lose that money. I want it back. BUT I'm prepared to go for a very long time before I ever see it back. Maybe never? I don't know. But it wouldn't kill me.

[Anonymous]

So, you are currently paying rent for two places? I'd remedy that, even if it means one of you sleeps on the couch or, you have two beds. (assuming you want to make this work of course.)

Jobs are tight, anyone is lucky to have even an underpaying job right now, so, if you need him to work then he has to be willing to take whatever is available, even if it's a lousy, low paying job.

The rest, you need to talk about, not get mad about but talk and find working compromises..

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure we're headed towards me moving in. Already talked about it. Looked at the options. Seems less than ideal (for lots of reasons) but it's the best alternative.

He is taking an odd job here and there for spending money.

My contributions cover only his obligations (rent, utilities, student loan). This is not a "gravy train" or "sugar daddy" situation. I'm only keeping his head above water.

[Anonymous]

Hi Anon,

I don't have a solution, but I will try to ask questions. Maybe by thinking about the answers you'll come up with something you haven't thought about yet. I don't expect you to answer them for us

What would happen if you stopped trying so hard? Would you two break up? Why?

What are the problems you keep arguing about? A lot of small ones like doing dishes? Several really big ones concerning your future together?

If you have a problem in your work or with other people, how do you like to approach it?

If you have to do something/go somewhere/arrange something do you think about all possible alternatives/problems that could occur? Do you try to come up with the best way? Or do you just run in it head first?

When/if you doodle on a piece of paper, what you draw?


MAYBE, it's not your relationship. It's your character. Maybe you like security (hmm, I am not sure about the right word here). Maybe you like to know where you are, if there are some problems or not, and if yes how to solve them. Maybe you want a clean road ahead, no bumpy ride, and as soon as you see a stone in the distance, you start thinking about what to do about it way before you reach it.

You know, when I doodle, all my lines are short and straight, connecting each other. It would cause me physical pain if someone told me "doodle spirals" I tried. And I could hardly believe how difficult and "against me" it was. Then I read more about doodling and realized that this pattern can be recognized in many aspects of my life.

I thought that all people doodled like that. I thought that all people were like me, thinking ahead, feeling bad about problems that MAY come. Big surprise, I was wrong. My partner draws spirals and other shapes I can't even name in English. When I make a typo in handwriting I scratch the whole word and write it again. He overwrites the misspelled letter several times. It drives me nuts! When I want to make a note I grab a piece of a big paper. He uses little sticky notes and covers them in writing.
And even though it seems like little and insignificant, surprisingly, it copies our different characters.

Maybe there is nothing wrong with your relationship. Maybe you just need to accept that your characters are simply very different. Which can be an asset

Thanks.

You ask interesting, thought provoking questions.

Fundamentally, is there really a problem with our relationship? I'm not sure. I DO think we have problems. The question in my mind: Can we work TOGETHER to resolve them?

So far, yeah, we are working together. I'm just a little surprised at HOW MUCH work it's taking.

Our characters are different, it's true. But I keep thinking about one thing I've heard about who we seek out for partners. We seek those who "balance" us or to be "evened out".

Example, he's more emotional. I'm more practical. Together, I feel more emotional and I think he's being made to be more practical. Does that strengthen us? I hope so.