The existence of HELL

[Jake]

Well MikeW has read the very same book I did. LOL. I totally understand where he's going because in psychology and philosophy, we do study the different realm of existence. However, I might say it was quite heavy for a 20 year old scholar to understand all of it, but through the years all the pieces comes together one year at a time. I have read the book of the dead I was 18 years old. As a Shaolin practitioner, the whole teaching of Shaolin is very attached to buddhism. So Mike keep on going... this is more interesting than reading God did this and Jesus said that or died for your sins.

[meninlove]

Now thanks Meninlove for providing the biblical vision of love, now let's see the very scientific version of love, it may not be has beautiful and poetic as the bible or any poets may suggest it, but it is what it is and comes from that gelatinous matter that rest in your head.

You and the bible call it love, I call it the nature's way to keep us alive and reproducing. So when does love occurs? Well if I go through my psychology books and I have studied behavioral psychology not the clinical one that says that everyone is crazy and should all be in a mental institution - gay people head first LOL.

When you fancy someone it's basically half percent of your body language that will take the largest part of the love chemical potion. So for those with inclinaison on numbers this is about 55%

Next is the stone and speed of once voice... what make you love a love song so much? Have you ever really stopped asking you that question. And it doesn't matter if you like soft or strong voice it really does reach you in some ways. Now this is about 38% +

The remaining percentage is through what they say. When I'm being romantic with Alex (that doesn't happen too often) but it happens, I have noticed that what I say doesn't matter as much as how I say it. If I were to ask Alex what I said when I was courting him, I'm quite certain he would not recall half of it because his attention was much more into looking into my eyes, my lips and all the other messages I'm sending through my body, more than words... and I have to admit it's pretty much the same from him to me. I'm not saying here that what he says doesn't reach to me, it does, but I read him more when he stands in a certain way, when his eyes glows and flap uncontrollably and that's how I've realized that it is true... Love isn't just words, it's a lot of things and a lot of reactions happens in my body and in my head when we are in that trance.

Now let's tackle the chemical part of love, there's three major chemical produce by your brain when you fall in love or are in love with somebody. You've heard of them before, but there's more and we'll go through those later. The main chemicals produced by your brain are:

Adrenaline; this is the initial stages of falling for someone, which activates your stress response, increasing your blood levels of adrenalin and cortisol. This has the charming effect that when you unexpectedly bump into your new love, you start to sweat, your heart races and your mouth goes dry.

Dopamine; this chemical stimulates ‘desire and reward’ by triggering an intense rush of pleasure. It has the same effect on the brain as taking cocaine - now I did cocaine when I was younger and god do you get high quick and you feel invincible (god thank you for me it was just one time)!

Serotonin; one of love's most important chemicals that may explain why when you’re falling in love, your new lover keeps popping into your thoughts. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter found in the digestive tract, the central nervous system, blood platelets and the pineal gland (deep at the center of the brain). It is also known as 5-hydroxytryptamine, which is often abbreviated to 5-HT. Now rich of that information, regarding serotonin, do you now understand why your stomach get upset when you fall in love with someone? Or that you are in love... those "butterflies" that people talks so much when they described what happen when they are in love with someone as a name and it's called "serotonin" - and we're not talking about the bat (however it's related). Here's few things where serotonin is involved with your body and you'll understand why this chemical is very important in the feeling of love, because your body will have different reaction to all those and it is the same for every human beings. Don't even try to get away from it. Here's where serotonin is active:

• appetite
  
• sleep
  
• memory
  
• Sleeping
  
• learning
  
• temperature
  
• mood - serotonin is also known as a happiness hormone because it contributes to feelings of well-being
  
• behavior - get a bit silly
  
• muscle contraction
  
• depression - rejection or uncertitude
  
• cardiovascular function - your heat beat increases
  
• endocrine regulation
  
• regulating aging
  
• bone metabolism
  
• wound healing - serotonin is a growth factor for some types of cells
  

While serotonin is called the happiness hormone it is also considered the main factor for depression as well. Therefore when doctor prescribes drugs such as "prozac" and "zoloft" which are both main antidepressant drug, their role is to raise your brain level of serotonin so you can feel happy again. But when you fall in love or are in love with someone, your brain naturally produces it. Which places you in an euphoria of hapiness until you divorce hahahaha!

Does love change the way you think? Yes it does! People with OCD Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, would immediately understand how love does change because when you're in love with someone, there's none a day not a minute that the love one comes to your mind. It is very related to OCD syndrome. It's very true, there's not a day in my life since I'm with Alex I don't have a though about him. And when I know he's alone driving on the highway back home, I get even more obsessive until he passes the door. And the very same happens to my children and those I care about.

Gotta bve blind to be in love. Well that's also true, because when you are in love or falls in love with someone, physical imperfection and some treat of personality doesn't seems to get to you. That's when the serotonin has cease to affect you that you stat noticing that he has this clanching eye or that his left toes are bigger than the right one... in fact you do notice them... but you just find it cute.

Now I haven't talked yet about the sex hormones: which are respectively testosterone and oestrogen – in both men and women. Yes we both have it... men also have a small portion of oestrogen and women do also have a small amount of testosterone... the difference here is the quantity one produces. But both have the very same functions. SEX.

When you thing that I was done with the love chemical broth that creates love, you're mistaking. There's two other major hormones that comes to play in the love retention of a love one, they are called "Oxytoxine and Vasopressin."

Oxytoxine is the kissing hormone and/or the cuddling hormones. When we hug or kiss a loved one, oxytocin levels drive up. It also acts as a neurotransmitter in the brain. In fact, the hormone plays a huge role in pair bonding. This hormone is also greatly stimulated during sex, birth, breast feeding—the list goes on.

Vasopressin is a peptide hormone formed in the hypothalamus, then transported via axons to, and released from, the posterior pituitary into the blood. It is another important hormone in the long-term commitment stage and is released after sex. Vasopressin (also called anti-diuretic hormone) works with your kidneys to control thirst. As a diabetic... my vasopressin does not control much because I'm always thirsty lol. So much that sometimes I do have to stop during sex to have a glass of water.

And you guess that there's many other... but those we spoke about are hormones that produce by a tiny pearl size organ present in your brain and it is one of the most important as it control several things: But let's see the most important here.

The hypothalamus is involved in several functions of the body including:

• Autonomic Function Control - everything that automate in your body... did your eyelids just flapped? Did you control it? No, hypothalamus did.
  
• Endocrine Function Control - the endocrine system refers to the collection of glands of an organism that secrete hormones directly into the circulatory system to be carried toward a distant target organ
  
• Homeostasis - is the ability to maintain a constant internal environment in response to environmental changes. It is a unifying principle of biology.
  
• Motor Function Control - walk, talk, move
  
• Food and Water Intake Regulation - without it your oesophagus wouldn't know when to contract muscle to swallow... worst it woul not activate the enzymes that comes into play when you need to digest something you just ate.
  
• Sleep-Wake Cycle Regulation - when you're in a coma, your hypothalamus has ceased to properly function, yet if you wake up from a long lasting coma this means that the hypothalamus has created hormone to fix itself.
  

The very first time I've got interested in biology and psychology to the point of studying it just for the sake of knowing was through a series of very educational cartoons called "Once upon a time - Il etait une fois" those were the greatest non biased cartoons created to educated children in my time and yes I'm from the 80's

That is also from that cartoon that a light started to brighten my thoughts about religion and I started questionning way beyond what church, priest and grand-parents would tell me about that god of theirs that someone controls everything... yet in school you are told that your brain is the control center. Who's right?

So yes love is a beautiful thing I agree, but let's not simplify it! The bible and other religious book does not have answer to everything, and honestly one have to be very blind not to see that SINS was man's made. If I do something wrong, it's certainly not the bible who've told me it was wrong. It's what my brain has gathered through the years which alows me to perceive what is wrong versus right and that's for me indeed.

Ask few question to a schizopherenic and you'll find out soon enough that the voices telling him wrong doing are not coming externally... it all happens in its head.

Now that was a great read Jake, and thanks.
I was, though, simply answering MisterLove's post, as one Christian to another.

[Jake]

Now that was a great read Jake, and thanks.
I was, though, simply answering MisterLove's post, as one Christian to another.

I am christian too Meninlove... in fact I'm a Knight of Columbus third degree, I am baptized Roman Catholic, I went through many missions around the world through different religious organizations. While I don't agree with their concept of god, I have no problem having wine and cheese with them as long it remains respectful from both ways. If I go for a glass and someone tells me I don't drink because it's written in the bible not to (yes I heard it before lol) I just feel like giving them the wedding of cana's where Jesus changed water into wine LOL. Or I may just attach them to a chair and pour some in their mouth so they'll shut up for the night Just kidding! I'm not that bad... I'm worst hahahaha!

[MikeW]

...So Mike keep on going... this is more interesting than reading God did this and Jesus said that or died for your sins.

Oh, no, I'm quite through for today. And as for the rest of it, well, just keep in mind that although we are all human and in that regard all alike, we're all also spirals either going upward, toward awakening, or downward, toward the abyss of 'nothingness'. And sometimes more than one direction at once, our lives being continuously intercepted by other spirals. Our role here is to help one another along the way, if possible (it isn't always possible). (What is and isn't possible and what makes it so one way or the other is a whole conversation unto itself.) We sew our seeds and either they fall on good soil, dry up on the sunny rocks and scattered by the wind, or are eaten by the hungry birds.

[meninlove]

lol, Jake. You know, a lovely neighbour of ours is charismatic Christian Catholic. When she found out we were a monogamous couple of 25 years she wasn't impressed and smiled, opining that she loved horses, but wouldn't have sex with one. lol! Then she went on to exhort the benefits of repentance etc.

So...I observed that homosexuality is as much a sin as women speaking to men as an authority or teacher. (Timothy, new testament, women should be seen and not heard, no woman shall have authority over a man etc lol).
You'll love this: she said that times have changed and we know now that the bible must be taken in context to the time it was written and that certain things no longer apply.
*laughing* ...like homosexuality, says I. She changed the subject.

[MikeW]

...If I go for a glass and someone tells me I don't drink because it's written in the bible not to (yes I heard it before lol) I just feel like giving them the wedding of cana's where Jesus changed water into wine LOL. Or I may just attach them to a chair and pour some in their mouth so they'll shut up for the night ...

It may be appropriate to note that in the ancient language words had double meanings. Water was water but it also represented a particular 'level' of truth, literal truth, knowledge yet to be transformed by the revelation of 'spirt' which can make one 'drunk in the lord':

[COLOR="Red"]Acts 2

12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.[/COLOR]

As one scholar noted: "The Christian prayer is for the end of the world, that it may come quickly. The only question is, how? A mistake here could prove quite costly." He went on to say, "The delay in the arrival of the Second Coming exists for those whose expectations lie in linear time and literal meaning." Thus, it isn't a matter of duration great or small but of revelation, awakening. The hour is already at hand.

[Jake]

You'll love this: she said that times have changed and we know now that the bible must be taken in context to the time it was written and that certain things no longer apply.
*laughing* ...like homosexuality, says I. She changed the subject.

See that'one thing some people do... while they say the bible shouldn't be taken literally when it comes to homosexuality they are just changing their mind... how hypocritically selective you ask me

[LJay]

I am not even sure where the current "Christian" concept of hell comes from.

[HumbleTangerine]

You have to see things from God's perspective.

To God, there is no such thing as big or small sin, there is just sin. And every sin can and will affect the entire universe in a negative way (butterfly effect).

This means that even the most vicious murderer can have a chance of redemption. But it also means that some sins that are commonly seen as venial or insignificant actually aren't and can stop you from going to Heaven.

Putting the problem of your personal definition of God aside, I'm still not convinced. I've read most of the bible but I'm by no means an expert on Christianity. I'm pretty sure, however that being punished in hell is permanent and irredeemable. This means, if I go to hell for stealing or murder there is no way I can ever escape eternal suffering. I can't redeem myself through changing my attitude or my behaviour. This is the reason why hell as a punishment is disproportionate.

In many societies it's possible to be locked up throughout your entire life. If humans were immortal and could live for an eternity, however, this punishment would make even less sense. Hell implies that certain acts are so bad that you can never make up for them, and that is in my opinion morally repulsive. Imagine how fundamentally people can change in our limited lifespans. Then imagine a scenario where no matter how much you change and repent, God will still hold you accountable for something you did billions and billions of years ago on earth and have you burn for it.

[Jake]

It may be appropriate to note that in the ancient language words had double meanings. Water was water but it also represented a particular 'level' of truth, literal truth, knowledge yet to be transformed by the revelation of 'spirt' which can make one 'drunk in the lord':

[COLOR="Red"]Acts 2

12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.[/COLOR]

As one scholar noted: "The Christian prayer is for the end of the world, that it may come quickly. The only question is, how? A mistake here could prove quite costly." He went on to say, "The delay in the arrival of the Second Coming exists for those whose expectations lie in linear time and literal meaning." Thus, it isn't a matter of duration great or small but of revelation, awakening. The hour is already at hand.

Oh I understood what it meant... but those who are often referring to not drinking because they claim it was in the bible... I give them that Cana's wedding and unlike you and other scholars they never think it through the real meaning of it. In French 20 is pronunced "Vin" and it's written "vingt" but they have the very same pronunciation. "Water" in French is pronunced like the letter "O" but it's written "eau". So I too can change O into wine, I add number 2 in front of it. I know it's a French joke, but you understand the cleverness of it LOL.