Open Relationships - what's the big deal?

[East]

^^^One important thing to note...ALOT of people...mostly straight people...have "open relationships"..and one or both of them don't even know it....

Check out the statistics on infidelity...they are staggering....and most of those people L I E to themselves and each other...

I don't have an open relationship nor have I ever had an open relationship....BUT...I would choose one in a heartbeat before I committed to some bullshit family values liar who preached about purity and the sanctity of marriage.....most cheaters I have seen are the first to lecture someone else on their sexual morality....

[MikeW]

For those that believe this is a good idea, is this something you just inherently believed in or did it require some persuading?

First, I feel you're misrepresenting the opinions expressed here. I don't want to go back and read through every post but it seems to me what is being said is that how people define their relationship is an individual matter. You just can't make generalizations *about what other people should or shouldn't do*. Now, for yourself, that's a whole other matter. If you feel strongly that monogamy is what you need and want, then that is the kind of relationship you should have. I also don't see open relationships as being any "wave of the future"… I see posts by guys in your age group all the time basically saying the same thing you are, so it isn't like yours is some sort of minority opinion, exactly.

To me, the most important thing is people knowing what they want, being honest with themselves and each other. The worst thing two guys can do is get into a committed relationship when they're actually NOT ready for one. We see the consequences of that kind of thing on a regular basis right here in this forum.

Now, as to your question: For me it wasn't something I even thought about, to be honest. I'd had multiple sexual encounters by the time I was in high school and sometimes these involved more than one other person. At age 19 small group scenes were not uncommon to me. So, to me, that's just the way things were. To my mind "monogamy" was for heterosexual men who wanted to insure the paternity of their offspring.

That said, as I indicated before, my first gay "capital R" relationship was monogamous. It was what my partner, David, wanted and I agreed to it and stuck with that commitment until his death.

[EvenOlderButWiser]

An open relationship is simply cheating on each other, but with your partners approval. Sure you can dress it up in some fancy words, and justify it all you like. Its still cheating.

Open relationships between straight couples is quite rare, Im not sure why gay men feel the need to even be discussing this if they are in a relationship. I think it comes down to what someone said earlier. You want to have your cake and eat it.

Do similar open relationships occur in the lesbian world?

[Bhp91126]

An open relationship is simply cheating on each other, but with your partners approval. Sure you can dress it up in some fancy words, and justify it all you like. Its still cheating.

Open relationships between straight couples is quite rare, Im not sure why gay men feel the need to even be discussing this if they are in a relationship. I think it comes down to what someone said earlier. You want to have your cake and eat it.

Do similar open relationships occur in the lesbian world?

I don't know how you define cheating, but for me that means doing something without your partners knowledge and/or consent, which isn't the case in open relationships.

[EvenOlderButWiser]

I don't know how you define cheating, but for me that means doing something without your partners knowledge and/or consent, which isn't the case in open relationships.

Sorry, but your missing my point.

Most (granted not all) gay relationships don't start off as open relationships. Most gay relationships start off monogamous, and only turn into open ones when one of them decides he wants to play around outside of the relationship, usually because he's bored or unsatisfied in the physical relationship.

Open relationships usually happen or get discussed when one of the parties can't keep his dick in his pants, and rather than split up they decide to carry on, except they can now both fuck around outside of the "relationship" and not feel guilty about it. From experience usually one pressures the other into accepting an open relationship or no relationship.

Thats not a relationship in any conventional meaning of the word.

If you want to call it open FWB fine. But relationship? Er, no.

[East]

Sorry, but your missing my point.

Most (granted not all) gay relationships don't start off as open relationships. Most gay relationships start off monogamous, and only turn into open ones when one of them decides he wants to play around outside of the relationship, usually because he's bored or unsatisfied in the physical relationship.

Open relationships usually happen or get discussed when one of the parties can't keep his dick in his pants, and rather than split up they decide to carry on, except they can now both fuck around outside of the "relationship" and not feel guilty about it. From experience usually one pressures the other into accepting an open relationship or no relationship.

Thats not a relationship in any conventional meaning of the word.

OK...but...straight people do the same thing except they don't tell each other... and lie instead....

Straight relationships don't start out that way either. In fact...they swear before GOD to uphold their vows...and collectively they fail miserably...

Gay people have always been collectively way more honest...which is what I fear will disappear once marriage equality becomes the law for everyone...

[Bhp91126]

Sorry, but your missing my point.

Most (granted not all) gay relationships don't start off as open relationships. Most gay relationships start off monogamous, and only turn into open ones when one of them decides he wants to play around outside of the relationship, usually because he's bored or unsatisfied in the physical relationship.

Open relationships usually happen or get discussed when one of the parties can't keep his dick in his pants, and rather than split up they decide to carry on, except they can now both fuck around outside of the "relationship" and not feel guilty about it. From experience usually one pressures the other into accepting an open relationship or no relationship.

Thats not a relationship in any conventional meaning of the word.

If you want to call it open FWB fine. But relationship? Er, no.

Older you may be, wiser is definitely up for discussion. You're judgmental, full of stereotypes and think you know everything about relationships. Let me be the first to tell you: you don't!

Who died and made you the arbiter of what constitutes a relationship and what doesn't? You may have had bad open relationships, but shouldn't generalize those experiences to all other open relationships.

[MikeW]

An open relationship is simply cheating on each other, but with your partners approval. Sure you can dress it up in some fancy words, and justify it all you like. Its still cheating.

The word "cheating" means not playing by the rules. If my partner and I set up the rules of our relationship so that we can have sexual experiences with others (either together as a couple or individually), then we're not "cheating". That is, so long as we abide by the rules we've established. For example, maybe the rule is, "never bring a trick into our home." So long as I don't do that, it isn't cheating but the moment I do, I'm no longer playing by the established rules.

Open relationships between straight couples is quite rare, Im not sure why gay men feel the need to even be discussing this if they are in a relationship. I think it comes down to what someone said earlier. You want to have your cake and eat it.

But now you're actually contradicting yourself. Statistically we know damn well that CHEATING (that is, extramarital sex *without* the partner's knowledge or consent) IS prevalent in straight marriage. "Open relationships," where both the husband and wife have an arrangement may be "rare" but it is far from unheard of. How many women know for a fact their husbands are having affairs but stick with them "for the sake of the children" (or what have you). Gay men need to discuss this issue and come to terms with it for themselves, *especially* if they're in a relationship.

Do similar open relationships occur in the lesbian world?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? As a general rule, men and women have very different sex drives and that's what we're talking about.

I don't know how you define cheating, but for me that means doing something without your partners knowledge and/or consent, which isn't the case in open relationships.

Sorry, but your missing my point.

Most (granted not all) gay relationships don't start off as open relationships. Most gay relationships start off monogamous, and only turn into open ones when one of them decides he wants to play around outside of the relationship, usually because he's bored or unsatisfied in the physical relationship.

Open relationships usually happen or get discussed when one of the parties can't keep his dick in his pants, and rather than split up they decide to carry on, except they can now both fuck around outside of the "relationship" and not feel guilty about it. From experience usually one pressures the other into accepting an open relationship or no relationship.

Thats not a relationship in any conventional meaning of the word.

If you want to call it open FWB fine. But relationship? Er, no.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that it is the ULTIMATUM that effectively *ends* the capital R Relationship. If so, I agree you have a point about that -- but the way you're expressing this (that an open relationship IS "cheating"), seems a bit wonky.

Yeah, if I get to a point in a relationship where I have to make an ultimatum with my partner, "You either agree with me (whatever it is) or I'm leaving," yeah--that pretty much puts the kibosh on the "R" Relationship. At that point we're no longer operating and making decisions as a unit. For all practical purposes it is a kind of blackmail.

But is that what an "open relationship" is? You seem to be emphatically saying it IS this one sided deal (which, by the way, could theoretically be about anything... whether or not we have kids... whether or not you stop getting drunk every night... whether or not I'm allowed to watch porn and wank off by myself... I can think of a ton of scenarios). I disagree. What you're describing is a strong-armed manipulation of my partner into agreeing to something or loose the relationship. I do agree that any such ultimatum has, in effect, already broken our connection and damaged (if not effectively ended) our Relationship.

But I have to point out, this strong-arming can happen the other way around as well... If I'm being "forced" to agree to a monogamous relationship when I know it isn't in my nature to be monogamous, that to have the relationship I'm going to have to suppress my instinctual urges, doesn't that, effectively end the Relationship as well? Obviously if he and I can't come to some sort of agreement, then we can't have a relationship.

I'm agreeing, relationships based on ultimatums are not Relationships.

But is THAT what an "open relationship" is?

This is where [MENTION=20922]Bhp91126[/MENTION] and I are disagreeing with you. As I've said, I've been in both a monogamous and an open gay relationship. The monogamous one began that way and stayed that way until my partner's death. The second one began as an open relationship (with rules) and stayed that way until we separated (because he went insane, but that's a whole other story). But what you're saying is the second one wasn't a "R" Relationship; it was just a FWB relationship.

Frankly that really pisses me off. You don't know me. You don't know anything about my relationship -- how we felt about one another, what we had together, what went on between us -- you're making a generalization that is, in fact, offensive.

[Lexington]

I guess the gargoyle should weigh in, seeing as how I've got "open relationship" there under my name... I find it easier to explain if I move off sex for a minute. (Relax - I'll be back.)

I spend more far more time with my partner than with anybody else. (Well, "the guy who sits next to me at work" might be a close second, but that's just happenstance.) We have a lot of the same interests, and love to go out and do things together. But sometimes, we go off and do things with other people instead of each other. My partner recently flew off to California to attend an event, and I spent last weekend in Fort Collins at a music festival. And nobody seems to think much of this sort of thing. One person did ask "Did your partner join you?", and I responded "No, I'm going solo this weekend." But nobody said "What's the matter?" or "Don't you love your partner?" Nobody seemed to think it odd that we'd spend time apart doing stuff for awhile. If anything, it makes us giddy-happy when we get back together.

Having an open relationship, to us, means more or less the same thing. We're free to not only "go do stuff with other people", but get naked and sweaty with them if you'd like. And why not? My relationship isn't "unsteady" because I went to a concert with somebody else, so it doesn't mean that it's "unsteady" because I went and had sex with somebody else.

I can't speak for any other couple - as others have said, it's up to them to set the parameters. I know some people read "open relationship" and immediately think I'm out in a hotel room six nights a week with my tail in the air and a "NOW SERVING" sign next to me. But in actuality, I can count my sex partners on the fingers of my left hand. There's been some online stuff, and a lot of online flirting (hello, GS!) but very little in the way of actual sex. And having an "open relationship" means just that we don't have to worry about that if and when it comes up. We don't have to consider it a sign of "relationship trouble".

To sum up, being in an open relationship (as far as I'm concerned) doesn't mean I can't keep it in my pants. It means I don't HAVE to keep it in my pants.

Lex

[EvenOlderButWiser]

you're making a generalization that is, in fact, offensive[/B].

Apologies Mike, Im not looking to be offensive to anyone, Im just trying to understand why gay men find it so hard to be in a monogamous relationship.

My question around whether women in a same sex relationship was relevant, because I wanted to know if it was accepted in all same sex relationships, or just male ones.

As I said earlier, I was writing from my experience.

I was in a monogamous relationship for 10 years, then I found out he was cheating on me and he then gave me the ultimatum of accepting that we were in an open relationship, or no relationship at all.

The OP was asking for advice and views, and I gave mine. Clearly open relationships work for some (which I also stated in my replies) but not for all (me for example)

As I said, no offence intended and apologies if any was taken.